[ben_w]

Europe as a whole didn't give up in the 1970s, but the 1970s was famously bad for the UK.

That said, I think this was more a case of when the rot in the UK became visible rather than when it started; the British government hasn't been competent for a very long time, and still isn't. With the caveat that I'm not a historian and have only an amateur knowledge of the events, I'd say the problems set in even before the peak of the British Empire, which itself I place at just before the outbreak of WW1 owing to how Pyrrhic that victory was.

[vidarh]

It feels like the British establishment is particularly good at one thing: Being pragmatic enough to stay in power.

That appears to take precedence over anything else. It may have "saved" the UK from revolutions or major clearouts of its governing structures and legal system, and results in a system that is delightlyfully quirky on the surface.

But it's also a way of governing that seems to lead to managing decline over fixing things because managing decline is less risky in the short term.

[scott_w]

If you think the British Empire was ever competent then I strongly recommend you listen to the episodes of the Empire podcast that cover the British Empire (there’s a lot of different episodes across the series).

With the exception of the Royal Navy, the British Empire was spectacularly incompetent. It’s a running joke that the British stumbled into being the largest empire in history.

That said, I don’t think it’s unique to Britain. The Roman Empire has many tales of staggering incompetence and wild idiocy throughout its expansion. If you have the time, The History of Rome is an excellent podcast that covers the entire time period.

I suspect it’s the truth of human nature that it isn’t possible for such large organisations to be competent throughout, just by virtue of how many people they take to operate.

[ben_w]

> With the exception of the Royal Navy, the British Empire was spectacularly incompetent. It’s a running joke that the British stumbled into being the largest empire in history.

Hm. Well, I can't say I know any better than that, I was rather assuming that becoming the biggest empire was itself due to something approximating competence.

Certainly, if one takes the view that all large organisations are mediocre, the British Empire is unambiguously an example of "large organisation".

Edit:

Just to check, the Empire podcast by Anita Anand and William Dalrymple?

[scott_w]

> Certainly, if one takes the view that all large organisations are mediocre, the British Empire is unambiguously an example of "large organisation".

Absolutely! I think all governments can safely fall under "large organisation" as it's pretty much necessary.

> Just to check, the Empire podcast by Anita Anand and William Dalrymple?

That's the one.

[fennecbutt]

Tbf if the government isn't united, the people aren't united either. And having lived here for almost 8 years now I can see that that's the case.