[asimpletune]

If you’re at a corner and someone asks for directions, you say “three blocks that way”. That means three blocks starting from here.

Then what do you call “here”?

The name for where you start from in this scenario is usually not required because it’s obvious what you mean and everyone understands the first block means you have to first walk a block, not that where you start is the first block.

So in that sense yes we have a zeroth chapter. That’s when you’re at the beginning of the first one but haven’t read all the way.

[oh_my_goodness]

Folks ... cardinal and ordinal numbers both have "just so" stories to support them. We're unlikely to eliminate either one of them today.

[zkmon]

"here" is definitely not a zeroth block. As soon you start walking, you are in the first block. However, if you are numbering the separations (cuts) between the blocks, you can number that "here" as zero.

[asimpletune]

Ok as soon as you start walking your are in the first block, I agree. So then where are you before that? What block were you at before you started moving, when you were giving directions?

What is the name of the block from which you left to enter the first block? Before you started walking I mean.

And mustn’t that block be before that other first? When we move from where we start we count up, so then mustn’t an earlier block be counting down? Counting down would mean a number smaller than one.

And are blocks not counted in units, as whole numbers?

So would it not be the case that one block less than 1 must be by necessity the zeroth block?

In other words if you agree that “as soon as you start walking, you are in the first block”, then you must also agree that before you left you began in the zeroth block.

How else could it be interpreted?

[zkmon]

Before starting to walk, you were at the start of the first block, not at zeroth block. There is no block prior to first block. Otherwise that block would be called as first block.

Think of jogging on a road. When you are at the beginning of the road, you are at the start of the first mile, not in the zeroth mile. It doesn't have one more mile prior to first mile.

[asimpletune]

O you’re right. How could I forget the first minute of each day is 12:01, or that a previously unknown computer exploit is called a 1-day exploit.

And everybody knows a pandemic starts with patient 1!

[bazoom42]

The patient-0 terminology arose from a misreading of the label patient-O, where O is the letter O.

When numbering discrete elements you usually start with 1, so first is 1, second is 2 etc.

Indexes in C are not ordinal numbers though, they should be thought of as offsets or distances from the first element. So [0] is 0 steps away from the first element, hence the first element. The confusion arise when you think these indices are actually ordinal numbers.

[asimpletune]

I agree with all of this.

The original discussion was regarding there's no such thing as a zeroth X, and what I've been trying to say this whole time is sure there is, it's the beginning. Which is why you start counting time from 0.

Interesting about patient-O though. I didn't know that.

My previous comment may have seemed snarky, but that wasn't my intention. I tried to originally write something that didn't seem sarcastic but it was just long.

The best way to explain my point was to just to agree and then list the contradictions that arise, e.g. The day starts at 12:01 since there's no zeroth minute, etc... and that unfortunately has the effect of looking like snark.

[numice]

That's a neat way of thinking.