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by apexalpha 219 days ago
So you not have extended family or friends in your daily social setting?

Like this sounds awesome but being offline for 23 hours in the day is unmanageable here, unless you live a very solitary life.

4 comments

I also have no phone.

I have tons of friends and a very active social life - in person.

I bump into friends in town, at the ski hill, at the bar and grocery store.

I ask people for the time, directions and how their day is going. I’ll never have a phone.

Okay but what if daycare needs you to pick up your kid?

People expect to be able to reach you…

I am near a landline 90% of the time, am reachable by internet during working hours on weekdays, and go to my desk to check emails and chats multiple times a day on weekends. It turns out you do not need to be reachable or online every second of every day to do virtually anything in the modern world including raising kids.
Oh, this sounds like you work from home and can just substitute your landline and PC for 90% of contact, this wouldn't nearly work like this for most people.

Envy you a bit, though.

I had this lifestyle when I worked from an office, and at home, in both individual contributor and leadership engineering roles. I also travel quite a bit.

Just set expectations with others and it works just fine either way. Only thing in the way is cognitive dissonance for most people.

In my case people absolutely forgive not being able to reach me every second of every day because I am a productivity machine due to being able to actually focus.

We managed these problems before everyone had a mobile phone.
Back them, they did called you to work and it was customary to rely message by two other people. There is no such desk anymore and they dont want to be handling your life.

And if your kid needed to go home and sleep in bed, you had to take the day off instead of home office. There was price to that.

Oh, and back then school did not expected parents and kids to have phones, now it does. Information about schedule changes, homework, what needs to be paid and such is broadcasted with the assumption that everyone has a phone.

If you have an unusual lifestyle choice, you simply need to communicate that to all involved. Any that do not respect it, you can seek out alternatives for.

One clinic denied me for not having a Google or Apple account, so I took my business to one that would accommodate me.

Rolling over and doing what the majority of people want you do to is not how change happens.

"What if you get an infection?"

SoftTalker: "We managed healthcare before antibiotics, antiseptics, germ theory, sterilisation. Hah, gotcha."

That's why I make sure my kid is chained to my side 24/7, you never know what could happen. This contact-ability panic is fucking ridiculous.
Yes but back then people also didn't expect you to have one. Society wasn't built around it.
Who cares what others expect? Say it is your religion, or digital dietary preference.

When they see you working circles around everyone else because your brain can finally focus, they will generally back off.

Email.

If it’s a real emergency Call 911. They’re better trained than me.

Have your wife stay home with the kids, then you don't need daycare.
I very rarely find myself being sincerely jealous of others, but man does your life sound amazing.
And to be honest, that reaction is part of the reason I keep doing it.

When people ask for my number and I say I don’t have a phone, 99% of all people say very passionately “omg, I wish I could get rid of this thing”. Most people don’t like their phone, which confirms my belief it won’t make my life better.

> Like this sounds awesome but being offline for 23 hours in the day is unmanageable here, unless you live a very solitary life

Except when you are offline together.

Yes, but unfortunately my kids’ daycare, school, other parents, my job don’t want to.
If you wanted to be vegan as a personal choice and everyone in your life wanted you to eat meat anyway, who cares? No one gets to decide your lifestyle but you. Make them adapt.

You can get landlines (via a VOIP conversion box or otherwise), and beyond that what do you really need if you are honest?

This is just circular arguing.

> it’s not manageable to be offline all the time here

> it is if you’re all offline together

> but everyone doesn’t want to be offline with me

> just be offline by yourself; what’s the big deal? <— you

The big deal is all the stuff called out above. My kids school, child care, my work, pizza delivery, everyone has built up infrastructure that assumes virtually always online.

If it works for you to just not be online anymore, cool. But it’s not trivial for many people to make this change.

I have an active social life, spent years as a sysadmin, co-run two tech companies, have a family, all without a phone.

This is not some crazy sci-fi lifestyle experiment I am running for the first time. I just live mostly like all industrialized humans did before 2009.

This is still not an answer to the comment chain. The real answer is “if you want to live this way, you give up a bunch of conveniences and have to deal with it.” It’s less convenient with schools, with childcare, with work, and everything else that assumes always online.

> No one gets to decide your lifestyle but you. Make them adapt.

Make them adapt is some nonsense. You’ve made multiple comments that through sheer force of will you can make other people align with your choices. You’ve posted zero evidence, or even claimed, that you have succeeded in doing this yourself.

> My kids school, child care, my work, pizza delivery, everyone has built up infrastructure that assumes virtually always online.

Is there actually a pizza place that refuses to bring a pizza to someone without a cell phone app being involved? Like they have no phone number you can call from a landline or a website where you could place an order? Odds are good that you could get by just fine letting your kids school/daycare know your email address/landline phone number. Some people's work is much less flexible, but everything else should be accommodating people without cell phones.

You can surely get pizza delivered, though certainly I’ve had pizza delivery people text me because they couldn’t find my house. So having a cell phone is valuable even then.

Part of my problem with the claims that cell phones are the problem is that the answer often seems to be a landline that you’re still available on. If you replace one phone with another, what’s the difference? This isn’t a sarcastic question, either. The differences are key.

No one worried about the impact of dumb cell phones on our kids. Maybe the texting was a bit annoying but that’s all. What really changed is smart phones, the Internet in your hand all the time. The doomscrolling Instagram or TikTok and completely disconnecting from the real world most of the time. The Facebook-type sites that enable anonymous bullying.

It’s important to understand what the actual problems are because abstaining from phones entirely is just not realistic. Possible? Yes. Realistic? No.

I don't think anyone said it's trivial, but they are saying it is 1. possible, and 2. overall a positive change. But merely that has upset people in this thread.
No one is actually upset by this. “oMG why are you so triggered?!”

My point was that the person I replied to ignored the entire chain to reply as if they were actually answering the question, which they were not.

I agree this is not actually impossible. Is it an overall positive change? That’s debatable.

It saddens me that this is a real thought of yours. You just need a bit of creativity and trust, my friend. Something it seems people are lacking these days... likely due to the very thing we are discussing now: smartphone addiction!

As has already been pointed out to you here before, these social moves you fear are awkward or impossible were EASILY handled by generations before you... and all without cellphones. Go figure.

I live in silicon valley, have an active social life, travel frequently, have a family I spend time with every day, and am co-running two tech companies.

People did all of these things before smartphones and all those methods still work just fine today.