[crikeykangaroo]

I completely agree. It's a good thing we're in a multipolar world now. The US (and its vassal states) have ruled terribly and the world suffered much over it. Sadly, there is still a lot of propaganda that needs to go away. A great world leader would spread genuine peace. Not corrupt other countries, start wars and shed blood. The USA has failed to even keep its own citizens safe and secure. All I worry about is that they will drag a lot of other countries with them while they are falling.

[actionfromafar]

So how can you completely agree if even you worry?

I worry more. I am certain, for all bad things the US did, the multipolar world will be much much worse. You think the other power players are better? No way.

[noir_lord]

Less and less likely they’ll drag others down, the first trump presidency was a warning, it’s gonna suck in the rest of the western world but we’ll survive.

[brokencode]

The US hasn't been perfect, but you can hardly say we've ruled the world terribly. Because who has ever ruled it better?

We helped Europe and Asia rebuild after WWII instead of conquering them. To the extent that our previous enemies in Germany and Japan now have some of the strongest economies in the world.

There have certainly been wars, often with dubious justification or horrific results, but good luck finding any superpower in history that hasn't gotten into bad wars. Unlike the US, most of the time those other superpowers used war for territorial expansion, like Russia is doing in Ukraine today.

You can dream of your utopian world order all you want, but at some point you have to judge the US against the alternative instead of the almighty.

[geon]

> but you can hardly say we've ruled the world terribly.

"Terribly" is definitely a fair assessment.

> who has ever ruled it better?

Blatant whataboutism.

> instead of conquering them

"I protected them in so many ways, cared for them as if they were my own children. But to this day, is there a single statue of me on Bajor?"

[Waterluvian]

I love the DS9 reference. But it also reminds me of Hamilton:

    You'll be back, time will tell
    You'll remember that I served you well
    Oceans rise, empires fall
    We have seen each other through it all
    And when push comes to shove
    I will send a fully armed battalion to remind you of my love!

The idea that the world was better off under American rule is so deeply ironic that my brain is breaking.

[brokencode]

What you call whataboutism, I call comparative evaluation.

On an absolute scale, every world power in history and humanity in general has been terrible. Endless injustices and atrocities since the very start.

That’s just not a very useful way to look at things though.