[toomuchtodo]

Tribalism, identity politics, low education and lack of respect for education and intellectualism, and late stage capitalism. A cautionary tale, for sure. People are angry, rightfully so, but at the wrong people. Thank Reagan (economics) and Gingrich (politics) for a lot of this we’re facing.

Deepfriedchokes is right; we need stronger, more robust systems to protect humans from other humans, because we cannot trust the human (broadly speaking).

[msandford]

The Biden admin (no idea if Biden himself was involved) literally sued Texas to stop Texas from enforcing border law. This same admin also essentially redefined "asylum" to be economic asylum rather than "I'm afraid that if I go back to my country I'll be killed" which is how people typically thought of asylum.

You can absolutely think that what's happening now is an overreaction, un-American, gross, illegal, and morally wrong.

But if you're unwilling to try and understand how it's possible that over half the country voted for someone who would enact policies that lead to what we're seeing now, you're simply not paying attention.

If you just want to see the people who voted for this as "the enemy" and "evil" you're basically doing the same tribal "othering" that's lead to these outcomes you don't like.

Is that ugly and uncomfortable? Yes, absolutely. Will things get better by ignoring it? Absolutely not.

[whoknowsidont]

>If you just want to see the people who voted for this as "the enemy" and "evil" you're basically doing the same tribal "othering" that's lead to these outcomes you don't like.

"If you point out problems, you yourself are actually the problem. I am very rational."

Incredible logic.

[drdaeman]

It is incredible, because a lot of people dismiss it so eagerly.

Let me try to phrase it differently: ostracization rarely yields positive results, and is more likely to lead to opposite of desired course of action through future radicalization.

In other words, saying that bad people are bad is - as paradoxical as it might be - less likely to making anyone better than make bad people even worse.

[whoknowsidont]

>It is incredible, because a lot of people dismiss it so eagerly.

Because it's wishful thinking, and it only serves one purpose and only benefits one group.

You can't say it wasn't tried. Far from it.

It didn't work out. Plain and simple.

[drdaeman]

Sorry, I absolutely appreciate the explanation instead of a snark remark, but I don’t understand.

What was tired or supposed to work out? Not ostracizing is not exactly a solution (grandparent comment haven’t made suggestions as to what to do instead), and alternatives aren’t one possible approach but a giant spectrum of possible reactions. Instead of saying “you’re a bad person” a lot of different things can be done, right?

Or do you possibly mean that we collectively tried everything and nothing ever worked out, so we’re fairly positive this is wishful thinking? Or am I misunderstanding something, or falling to some fallacy here?

[msandford]

Okay so what's the solution then that doesn't involve having to disappear the half of the country that you don't agree with? I'm super open to better solutions. I just rarely hear any other than magical thinking. "All these evil shitbags will get reeducated and agree with me now" if it's not that, what is it?

[tremon]

the solution that doesn't involve having to disappear the half of the country that you don't agree with?

You can't form a country with people who want half the country to disappear. There's only three possible outcomes here:

- civil war

- secession

- remove all people that want other people to disappear

[msandford]

I think you're missing the fourth option which is rediscovering civility, agreeing to disagree, etc.

Are the Republicans doing that right now? Probably not. Are the Democrats doing that right now? Also probably not.

[whoknowsidont]

"Are the people doing the humane and civil things the same as the people actively supporting and promoting evil and hate? I guess so!"

If you're not being disingenuous you're being incredibly infantile.

Take a big, long think.

>agreeing to disagree,

Disagreement about what exactly? Please, spell it out.

[ryandrake]

> But if you're unwilling to try and understand how it's possible that over half the country voted for someone who would enact policies that lead to what we're seeing now, you're simply not paying attention.

Anyone who's read about the history of Germany in the 1920s and 1930s should understand how it's possible. We can still feel disappointed and helpless that the same mentality is rearing its head again, especially in a country that itself sent people overseas to fight it 100 years ago.

Off and on throughout my life as an American, I thought my fellow Americans could be sometimes be described as arrogant, sometimes uninformed, sometimes overconfident, sometimes over-patriotic, sometimes selfish. But never needlessly cruel and cold-blooded like millions are today. This is new and terrible. It's absolutely sickening to walk outside in my neighborhood, look at 10 houses and think maybe 3 or 4 of them are homes to people who are OK with what is happening.

[nobody9999]

>But if you're unwilling to try and understand how it's possible that over half the country voted for someone who would enact policies that lead to what we're seeing now, you're simply not paying attention.

Actually it was more like 25% of those eligible to vote, not "over half the country."

[don_neufeld]

Which lawsuit are you referring to?

[whoknowsidont]

Probably this one: https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/03/politics/texas-immigration-la...