[HeinzStuckeIt]

> This is supported by a majority of the US.

The election was fairly close. The winning candidate got elected by a coalition of people with differing views on an number of individual items within his platform. That does not equate to certain approval by the majority of the American population of any of the things the linked article recounts.

All that said, as an American living abroad who votes left, the use of terms like “kidnapped” and “abducted” to describe immigration-enforcement actions seems really weird to me and my expat peers. There are quite a few democratic, developed countries high on freedom-ranking lists that widely deploy law enforcement to arrest and deport undocumented immigrants and visa overstayers. Sure, deplore lack of due process when actual citizens get caught in the net, but so much use of these loaded terms isn’t even about that, it’s criticizing actions against non-citizens.

[ryandrake]

> The winning candidate got elected by a coalition of people with differing views on an number of individual items within his platform. That does not equate to certain approval by the majority of the American population of any of the things the linked article recounts.

There may be differing views on other topics among the party, but Republicans broadly support this vision of cruelty and these actions against immigrants[1] by huge margins. It's probably the one single vision they are united behind.

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45859760

[metalcrow]

Your citation doesn't support your claim

[ryandrake]

- 74% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say the Trump administration is doing the right amount to deport immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally. Another 12% say it’s doing too little and 13% say it’s doing too much.

- Nearly nine-in-ten Republicans approve of sending additional U.S. troops to the border (88%) and increasing deportations (86%). More than six-in-ten strongly approve of these actions.

- 80% of Republicans approve of cutting federal funds to cities and states if they do not cooperate with deportations

- 72% of Republicans approve of suspending asylum applications, with 38% saying they strongly approve.

[cloverich]

Only that first stat aligns with what you are claiming. Wanting more border / deportations is fully inline with wanting to control immigration. Likewise cutting funds to states not supporting federal law isn't fringe. And asylum applications are clearly broken.

You can want all of those things and still be against eg ice agents raiding a school. It would be more accurate if it focused exclusively on the more egregious ICE activities.

[HeinzStuckeIt]

It looks like the difference in the popular vote was 2,284,967 votes towards R. Do all of those 2,284,967 voters demonstrably overlap with that 86% of the polled Republicans? If not, then claiming that a majority of Americans support every incident in the linked article based on the last election, lacks basis.

[ryandrake]

I'm not saying anything about the majority of the American population. Just that Republicans broadly support these actions. I hope we never get to the point where a majority of the overall public support this.

[immibis]

95% of people don't care about anything (but not always the same 95% on every issue). Revolutions are typically caused by 3% of the population outweighing the other 2%, while the 95% do nothing.

[sgentle]

Do you not think there might be a relationship between the lack of due process and the choice of terms?

Like, maybe the defining difference between arrest and abduction is whether the action is the output of an accountable system of justice, rather than whether the people doing it are the right kind of people and the people having it done to them are the wrong kind of people.

[HeinzStuckeIt]

For some years now there has been a segment of the American left, particularly visible on social media, who believes that strictly enforcing immigration laws at all is bad. This predates the current guy, as well as his administration as the former guy. So, when I read an article by someone like the writer here whose online activity has other shibboleths of a left more extreme than found in mainstream parties in many other democracies, my assumption is he is coming out of this trend and the current events, as appalled as he is by them, is not the ultimate cause of his use of that loaded language.

[stavros]

> The election was fairly close.

Yeah but "the totalitarian Neonazis who wanted to deploy secret police were only a slight majority" is really faint praise.

[HeinzStuckeIt]

No, my point was that in a close election that depended on a party building coalitions between heterogenous groups of voters, the people in favor of any particular action taken by the elected government may be a minority of the population, not even a slight majority.

[stavros]

Sure, but in a healthy society, such extreme opinions should never even be close enough to a minority large enough to be elected into power. Hopefully, anyway.

[HeinzStuckeIt]

Blame it on first-past-the-post. It’s just one of the many ways the Founding Fathers sowed the seeds of a politically unhealthy society.

[queenkjuul]

Many of these people are documented permanent residents or US citizens being grabbed without warrants, without being read rights, without charges, and without an opportunity to present documentation.

That's kidnapping.

[metabagel]

ICE are wearing masks, refusing to identify themselves, abducting citizens and non-citizens alike. They are accusing citizens of assault and then releasing them without charging - a pretty good indication that they lied.

They are conducting warrantless searches. There is a case where they rammed the car of a U.S. citizen (clearly seen on video), promptly took her into custody, accused her of hitting them, and then released her without charging her.

They are profiling people based on race and ethnicity.

The abductions look like kidnappings. They don’t look like law enforcement actions.