[lostapathy]

The "you can just not agree to it" argument is so bogus. You can only buy good/services that are for sale, and when they all have the same crappy terms, you have to agree to somebody's to live in the modern world.

That's like the people who claim only idiots live in HOAs but neglect the fact that, in some markets, nearly all real estate worth living in is covered by an HOA of some sort so your alternative isn't "buy a different house" it's "live in an apartment forever"

[9rx]

> You can only buy good/services that are for sale

The world is full of custom car builders. Buying a something like the F-150, but without the undesirable computing components, is quite practical and very possible.

It'll be expensive, which I expect is what you were really trying to say when you pretend there is no such thing for sale, but you're just returning us to the heart of discussion: The F-150 is cheap, comparatively, because it has already priced in the tracking subsidy. You're accepting of those undesirable terms because the lower price makes it compelling enough to do so.

[lostapathy]

Is it really "accepting a concession" if the "alternative" is so expensive as to not be an option anyway?

This is like telling someone who doesn't like that they have to wait in traffic they should just take a helicopter to work everyday. Yes, it's technically an option for some people, but for the vast majority it's not.

[9rx]

Yes. That concession is what gets one with limited means into an F-150. If it was sold at its true market value, absent of all value diminishing systems like tracking, they wouldn't be able to afford that either.

Same goes for roads. You most definitely can build roads that don't have traffic, but only the rich will be able to afford to use them. Traffic is what enables those of lesser means to also participate.

It's a pretty good tradeoff for those who are poor. And the rich can buy whatever they want anyway.

[malfist]

Yes, the world is full of custom car builders. I'm sure I'll find someone that can build me a replica of the f150 lightning that doesn't enable spyware on me.

Mind to help me out a bit and point me at a few companies doing that? Around Kentucky if you don't mind since that's where I am.

[9rx]

I'd start with Ford. They're well known for their custom builds — what they call VSO. And they're already tooled up for production of an F-150-style vehicle around Kentucky to boot.

It won't come cheap like an F-150, but nobody can expect it to be cheap when the value proposition is much higher.

[malfist]

Ford VSO doesn't include the F150 lightning, just the F150.

[9rx]

That's exactly what they told you when you slapped a billion dollars down in front of them? Color me skeptical. I bet you haven't even talked to them.

[malfist]

Dude. They have a website. It lists what they do.