[mdhb]

Only because American discourse and thinking is so utterly poisoned by the absolute bullshit that is “American exceptionalism”.

In terms of almost any possible quality of life metric you can think of Europe is ahead of the US.

That combined with just a breathtaking level of ignorance of what Europe is actually like in any meaningful sense. You saw this a lot in this NYC election where they were trying to paint Mamdani as an actual communist because well over half of the country has no idea what “democratic socialism” means let alone communism.

[sillyfluke]

Yeah, but this only strengthens the parents point that "It works in europe" is not a good rallying cry in the states. It's also too easy for opponents to counter and point to random europeans who complain about their own system and win cheap debate points on that front. It might be better to just lean into the exceptionalism and say, "We're America, we're richer, we can make a better system." Or something along those lines.

[mdhb]

Counterpoint: The country really needs to learn how to have a grown up conversation and not allow the dumbest people in the room with the least generous interpretation of everything possible who were never going to vote for you anyways to constantly set the agenda.

Sensible voices are a rare thing in this climate and it’s incredibly easy to stand out as one if you stop playing by a set of rules that were intentionally designed to make you fail in the first place.

Honestly I think the American exceptionalism shit is a cancer on the society and I find it incredibly hard to distinguish from the "Deutschland über alles" nonsense that the Germans went through. It’s just a fundamentally flawed way of looking at the world. It’s like a story a small child might believe but it really doesn’t stand up to even the most gentle of scrutiny.

[mlrtime]

The problem is your whole line of thinking is EXACTLY why Democrats lose elections. This is exactly the wrong way to win over voters.

The louder you get with this type of message, the more you will push people farther away.

FWIW I lived in 3 continents including Europe and the densest cities in the world. The best QOL I've had is in deep red voting rural areas.

[mdhb]

Just to be clear we are currently in a thread talking about someone who won against all odds and stupid amounts of money by not sticking to the supposed “centrist script”.

Also we aren’t talking about your personal preferences here in terms of quality of life but about hard data. The numbers aren’t even close. The one you listed as your personal favorite comes last in those categories.

I’m not trying to be rude but it sure seems like you’ve taken your preference of living in a rural area vs living in a city and then tried to build an argument around that.

[sillyfluke]

Just to be clearer, Mamdani's whole platflorm was alluding to "making the best city in the world more affordable". If that's not appealing to New Yorkers's feeling of exceptionalism I don't know what is. Stop conflating positivity with hollow centerism, you're buttering Maga's bread.

[hitarpetar]

what are you suggesting? left politicians need to do more to explain to voters how stupid they are? it's a bold strategy cotton...

[mdhb]

More about accepting that they are never going to vote for you to begin with and that you’re very literally wasting both your time and killing the support you do have in trying to reach them. They are entirely unrecruitable.

How many genuinely ex-MAGA people do you know? I think for most people that number is at absolute best a very low single digit number.

There are a whole bunch of people out there who are entirely disenfranchised who just can’t be bothered to vote however who could be inspired to do so and this thread is very literally about someone who went with that strategy and won.

I’m simply making the argument that you should spend your time there instead and keep your integrity in the process. People actually want something to believe in and a concept of fairness, affordability, justice and anti-corruption is an incredibly wide tent already. Stick with that.

[sillyfluke]

>Honestly I think the American exceptionalism shit is a cancer on the society and I find it incredibly hard to distinguish from the "Deutschland über alles" nonsense that the Germans went through.

I think it would be wise for us to remember that it is/was not only Americans that believed in American exceptionalism, but immigrants that were actually trying to come to the States among other possible options who believed in it-- prior to this administration that is. You would have to admit it would be a ridiculous thing for them to do if they couldn't distinguish it from "Deutschland über alles".

>>You can go to live in France, but you cannot become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany or Turkey or Japan, but you cannot become a German, a Turk, or a Japanese. But anyone, from any corner of the Earth, can come to live in America and become an American.

This was the Republican president Ronald Reagan speaking. The world has caught up obviously since then in this regard as well, but prior to this administration it would not be a stretch to say this was true of America more than any other nation.

[olelele]

Except the McMansions and that every family has at least 3 cars…

[mdhb]

The majority of Americans live pay check to pay check back in the real world. It’s the only country I’ve seen outside of a war zone where people are regularly trying to crowdfund money for basic things like food, education, justice or medical care. The story you’re telling yourself is entirely divorced from reality.

I remember the parent of an ex of mine who was from NY tell me how lucky they were to have such incredible insurance and medical coverage when his wife got cancer because he only had to pay the first $100k/yr out of pocket and then the rest was “free”. It was repeatedly stressed to me what a rare thing this was and most people would be in such a worse position.

Anyways, long story short… They hit that limit by February and then spent the rest of the year getting denied by their insurance company until the day she died. But at least she was treated at “the best cancer hospital in the world”.

[defrost]

> But at least she was treated at “the best cancer hospital in the world”.

Last time I checked, Australia had better cancer survival rates than the US, higher quality of life, greater expected life span, and a hybrid medicare / private insurance system that covered almost the entire population such that very few faced medical bills outside the reach of their income (or lack thereof).

I had a stent inserted to clear a clot that travelled to my heart from a knee injury - free (surgery, two and half days in hospital, follow up recovery and lifestyle advice appoints).

The ambulance cost more as I was between St John's Ambulance covers at the time, that was $500 which I was happy to pay (myself, my father, and multiple family members have all worked as volunteer ambulance drivers and paramedics over the years).

[mdhb]

Yes, that was the sad joke unfortunately. The hospital was genuinely world renowned but what good does that do you if you can’t afford to use it. You die… hence the difference in survival rates.

[mlrtime]

"Average Cancer Survival Rates by Country: United States: 68% (overall), UK: 63% (overall), Canada: 67% (overall), Australia: 70% (overall), and France: 65% (overall). " -google

You're not wrong, but this thread makes it sound like the US is completely backwards when it's off by 1-2% and higher than other "socialist" countries.

[throwaway91530]

> In terms of almost any possible quality of life metric you can think of Europe is ahead of the US.

Laughable statement, considering Europeans give a leg and a arm to live in America.

[mdhb]

Real land of the free and home of the brave stuff here with a throwaway account to offer such gripping commentary.

Just talk like a normal adult with your normal account and accept that maybe some people think your opinion is bad and you lose an internet point.

[throwaway665667]

Judging people by the content of their character and their opinions, and not their superficial characteristics is an American value. Is that an alien concept to people who supposedly enjoy such a high quality of life?

[mdhb]

What on earth are you talking about? I’m asking why you’re scared of losing magic internet points and need to hide behind throwaway accounts and you’re here talking about the inner fortitude of the American character.

For what it’s worth, not that you asked but this year in particular has really only cemented my view of the general US citizen as a very scared individual who is terrified to stand up for anything.

What you’re doing right now is actually great example of that under what could only be described as the lowest stakes scenario possible.

You could probably learn something from the “cheese eating surrender monkey” French who you’re all to happy to compare yourselves against but at least they are willing to fight for what they have.

[Hikikomori]

>and not their superficial characteristics is an American value

Is this satire? Or do you not believe that racism exist in America?

[ben_w]

> Laughable statement, considering Europeans give a leg and a arm to live in America.

No we don't.

Sure, most of us used to like the USA a decade ago, but even back then it would have to be a right weirdo (everywhere has them) to think that highly of the USA.

If anything, I'm thinking of a healthcare cost comparison a while back, which said that for the cost of a single hip replacement in the USA, someone could fly from the USA to Spain, get it done privately, spend a year just living normally in Spain while recovering, break the other hip and get that replaced too, and still come out ahead.

(I never fact-checked that meme, what with me living in the UK at the time where the NHS supplies everything free at point of use unless you opt for private care that very few bother with; I'm now in Germany whose system is basically what the UK left fears is dangerously American and the US right fears is dangerously like the UK's NHS).

Or some of the stuff we hear about Americans considering the 2nd amendment to be a "god given right". No thanks: safety isn't where I can get armed up, it's where I don't need to.

But now? Trump's reelection has coincided with a lot of people changing from thinking of the place as "ally sharing our values" to just "a necessary partner", a downgrade to significantly less than you describe.