[rockostrich]

Weight is not the only thing that matters though. You also need to consider center of gravity and wheel base. A YJ Jeep Wrangler and a Honda Fit both weigh around 2700 lbs and they even have similar wheel bases but the driving experience between those 2 is night and day. A Honda Fit can take a turn at speed without feeling like you're going to go flying. You'll feel like you're able to flip making a turn going 20 mph in a YJ.

This is why the first performance mod that most people put on their cars is an adjustable coil over suspension. Dropping the car down by an inch or 2 changes has just as much of an impact as shedding some weight.

Ironically, most people put lift kits on Jeeps but that also usually comes with widening the wheel base and putting on larger wheels/tires.

[jakogut]

Lifting an off road vehicle isn't ironic at all, nearly every characteristic that makes a vehicle good on road makes it bad off road and vise versa.

Increased height makes for increased ground clearance and improved break over angle. Sway bars are another suspension component that's great for reducing body roll on road at speed, but reduces articulation and ground contact off road. Differential lockers also negatively impact turning radius, and cause tire chirp, wear, and oversteer under throttle on road, while increasing traction off road.

What's silly is daily driving an off road vehicle on road, especially if you never take it off road.

[lunias]

You are correct, ideally you would do both. My car is lowered on coilovers, I also have front and rear sway bars, but weight reduction is so much more than just handling.

I didn't realize that Jeep was so light... pretty nice actually, but yeah, that's just an application mismatch. People buy Jeeps that will never see even a dirt road in their lives. Then they get on a dirt road once or twice and say, "Look what it can do!" Sure... a rally car would be much better. In order for the Jeep to come into its own you need to be doing something that requires ground clearance... that's basically their singular purpose: rock crawling (which almost no one does).

[dghlsakjg]

The Jeep YJ he is talking about is an 80s design, and some models topped 3200lb by the end of the run. So he is comparing the weight and handling of a car from the 80s to a car from the 2000s at the earliest (although the curb weight he cites means that the fit he is talking about would have to be a later model, from 2015 or later).

The modern Jeep Wrangler, and the one that would be contemporary to the Honda Fit weighs in at 4,000 lbs in the 2-door base model or significantly more depending on options.

If you compare a YJ to a Honda Civic of the same era, you see that the 1986 civic was 1800 lbs up against a 1986 YJ at 2800 lbs.

[lunias]

Good catch. I didn't even realize... I was shocked because I assumed it was a modern Jeep. Your data is much more in line with what I would expect.

[hvb2]

> Ironically, most people put lift kits on Jeeps but that also usually comes with widening the wheel base and putting on larger wheels/tires.

That's not ironic. That's just caring more about the looks and you like that look. And looks > handling for that person

[jakogut]

It's not at all about looks, it's about a different kind of handling, for off road, that's mutually exclusive with on road handling.

Yes, some people choose to emulate off road appearances, such as with fake bead locks and then only ever drive their vehicle on road. That doesn't discount the fact that there are a great many explicit choices you can make in designing and building a vehicle that sacrifice on road performance for off road performance.