[throw-qqqqq]

Many countries have <40 hours/week and are still thriving.

There will always be someone willing to undercut. Should that be reason for us all to race each other to the bottom?

I personally don’t think the negative consequences of working a little less (on paper!) are proportional to the positives.

[Ray20]

> Many countries have <40 hours/week and are still thriving.

May I have the list of such countries with a level of prosperity comparable to the US (which seriously consider an $85k tax-free minimum wage)?

Your "everything is still thriving" on paper turns out to be "everyone except the elite is drowning in poverty and they can't complain about it because then their totalitarian government will declare them terrorists or something" in practice. All the time.

[throw-qqqqq]

You may be right about some parts of Europe, but I think you would be surprised just how prosperous at least the northern part is, despite sub-40 hour work weeks and comparatively high taxes, 5-6 weeks paid vacation and “socialist” politics.

California is the only state I’ve visited in the US, but I would say Scandinavians are wealthier on average/higher quality of life.

[Ray20]

> 5-6 weeks paid vacation and “socialist” politics

I'm not even surprised.

Socialist politics are extremely good at ensuring a high standard of living for the elite and shutting everyone else up. Look at any North Korean media outlet (of two or however many) - they're the best in the world, and everyone else is envious of them.

[dwaltrip]

You bring up North Korea in response to a comment about Scandivian societies…?

[mariusor]

Are you under the impression that North Korea is an actual socialist country? Just because it's in the name it does not make it so. I thought history thought us the lesson about that.

[throw-qqqqq]

> Socialist politics are extremely good at ensuring a high standard of living for the elite and shutting everyone else

European social democratic politics are usually characterized by the opposite outcome, where high taxes and redistribution means the top 10% is much closer to the average Joe than in ultra capitalist countries. Less inequality in general.

> Look at any North Korean media outlet

If you seriously compare NK to any country in Europe, you have no clue, sorry.

[Ray20]

> usually characterized by the opposite outcome

No. Look at the median salary of a full-time worker in Europe and compare it to the US. They are drowning in poverty.

> top 10% is much closer to the average Joe

No. In the US top 10% full-time workers get you what? About 300k? It is way closer to the average US Joe than Europe has it's top 10% to their average poor workers. There is more inequality in Europe than in the US.

> If you seriously compare NK to any country in Europe, you have no clue, sorry.

Why? Because you chose to trust European propaganda and not North Korean propaganda? Ask those who chose to trust North Korean propaganda what they'd tell you.

[hitarpetar]

have you ever heard of Europe?

[mc32]

Notably EU countries don’t produce as many large or global software products. I know they have some companies of renown but not to the degree the US does.

There may or may not be a connection to work habits, but we should find out and then decide if we’re okay with the consequences (like the lowest GDP per capita state (AL) being on par with Germany). Maybe we’re okay with playing second fiddle. But we should know what we’re in for.

[Ekaros]

I think real reason is less willingness to make massive bets on everything. In ZIRP environment that played out great on paper. But we really have to see how will it do with AI...

[Pungsnigel]

Which countries have <40 hours/week and thrive?

[throw-qqqqq]

Most of Northern Europe and Scandinavia.

Denmark has 37 hours/week. Netherlands is around 32-33 on average AFAIK. Switzerland is ~35 hours/week. Ireland and Austria are also well below 40 to my knowledge.

Most research shows that non-mechanical work (i.e. where you have to think a little), gets a lower work-output above 40 hours/week than below. If sustained, it’s not just diminishing returns, but lower absolute output, even at just 3-5hours weekly overtime.

[mamonster]

>Switzerland is ~35 hours/week

What? Switzerland is 40-42 hours for a full time employee.

[throw-qqqqq]

Sorry, I am not Swiss myself, so I may be completely mistaken.

I read that the average working hours is ~31/week. Digging further into that, it was the number of actual working hours on average (including part time and self-employeds), not what constitutes full-time employment.

[mamonster]

Fair enough. Once you get into actual hours worked, you have a lot of people working less than FTE numbers by quite a bit.

For example, once the maternity leave runs out, in finance a lot of couples go to 80% so that with 1-2 days of home office you can always have someone watching the child. It's less money but the nurseries are so crazy expensive in Switzerland that it can actually even be positive in terms of total (edit:net) income.

[throw-qqqqq]

Thanks for responding and elaborating.

I am not sure if we are in disagreement, but I believe my point stands: that Switzerland is a rich country despite working less than 40 hours/week on avg (actual hours).

[matsemann]

In Norway 40 hours is the maximum legally allowable (other than temporary overtime), most people have 37,5 hour work week. If one in addition count vacation days etc the difference between other countries and the US might be even starker, in total hours per year?

[rayiner]

> Many countries have <40 hours/week and are still thriving.

But it's a fiction built on U.S. force projection. It's become apparent that none of these countries could defend themselves against an aggressive competitor.

[throw-qqqqq]

Well you are comparing a single country of over 300 million (the US) with the countries in the EU that are on average 16-17 million. Do you think that makes sense?

[nasmorn]

Idk historically some European nations like Germany have been very successful at least at starting wars and people had their hands pretty full trying to defeat them. I don’t think their past WW2 docility can be attributed to their inability at doing heavy industry or weapons development

[eastbound]

France is thriving with 35hrs/wk! …if you omit that Fitch and S&P degraded the debt notation from AAA to A+ in just 6 years.

And that there’s no B. So we’re thriving on debt.