[TuringNYC]

>> I would have been fine with a 10 year payback, but 25+ was just not worth doing.

We are struggling with this also -- with or without an incentive. The payback period is long. Makes sense if you think forward rates will be super-high. But people are quite aggressive with their forward rate estimates, yet super-liberal with the lifespan estimates.

I've dealt with enough appliance breakdowns to know all the tricks companies pull

- You have a 25 year warranty, but only on parts. The labor ends up costing more than an entire new system.

- You have a 25 year warranty, but only on labor. The parts ends up costing more than an entire new system, possibly because the parts are no longer made. Labor warranty is now useless and you need to buy a new system all over.

- You have a 25 year warranty on parts and labor, but the company declares bankruptcy and you have no warranty any longer.

- You have a 25 year warranty on parts and labor, but the company got acquired and the acquiring company "cant find your warranty details in their system". Regulators are powerless to actually help despite months of letters.

- You have a 25 year warranty on parts and labor, but a tree/hail falls on the house and they declare it out of bounds of warranty. You go through your home insurance, but they only cover current value, not replacement value. You buy a whole new system, only partially covered and start all over again.

- You have a 25 year warranty on parts and labor, but manufacturer blames the malfunction on improper installation, but the installation company is long-gone/retired/non-responsive/bankrupt. Possibly the Accord insurance form is fake also (how many people actually verify the insurance Accord is real?)

Been there, done that, on all the above. Eventually, your only religion is deferred maintenance because you know you get ripped off royally no matter what you do. We havent yet heard horror stories because these systems are new, but you'll hear all the above as time goes on, and people realize the actual life of their systems are far shorter than their payback periods.

[0xbadcafebee]

Most good solar panels have a 12-15 year warranty on the panel, and a 25-30 year warranty on performance.

But this is a warranty, and you have many panels. If they're all going to fail, they will fail sooner. If one fails or breaks eventually, even if it's not under warranty, replacing the panel is dirt cheap. Of course you need to replace it with an identical panel, so it makes more sense to buy extra panels and just assume some will die. But even if you paid for a replacement, that's already just $100-$200, and it'll probably be cheaper in the future.

So the warranty isn't really that important long-term. They're more important for the short term, and a Tier 1 solar provider's so reliable that you don't really need it anyway.

[trollbridge]

The cost to replace a panel is not “dirt cheap” and requires significant skill.

I could say that “rebuilding a car engine is dirt cheap” assuming I can do it myself.

[0xbadcafebee]

Skill? If you can use a screwdriver, and lift 50lbs, you can do it.

1) Throw the "DC Disconnect" switch to de-power the panels. 2) Unscrew old panel from rails. 3) Disconnect MC4 connectors (with fingers). 4) Remove old panel and install new panel. 5) Connect MC4 connectors. 6) Screw panel into rails. 8) Throw "DC Disconnect" lever to re-power panels.

There's also a step 7 where the panel needs to be connected to the ground of the other panels, but with modern systems there's these metal clips that just clip onto the edges of adjacent panels to make the ground. Your system may be different but the ground is a pretty simple connection of metal to metal.

Here's a YouTube short showing it: https://youtube.com/shorts/fpyXHsZCb6M?si=JHoYfff2yz3ZsA9P

[SoftTalker]

Yeah I just have absolutely zero interest in owning, being responsible for, and avoiding scammers in my own electrical power generation, with some vague hope of breaking even decades later. I'll gladly pay a utility for reliable power, regardless of wind and cloud conditions, where they are responsible for all the infrastructure upstream of my meter.

[trollbridge]

Right. I do a lot of self sufficient things (including some of my own power generation) but I lack the desire to become my own power utility end to end. It’s already frustrating enough since I provide water and sewage to multiple households and electrical connection to the utility with solar and generator backup.