[danielbln]

Don't bother, the slop line has been drawn in the sand and people will stay on their side. I also think that slop is low effort and/or low/zero iteration output, but beyond that the sloppiness fades away, but good luck convincing the hardcore slop hunters to see things in a nuanced way (in before ocean boiling, that's usually where that argument goes next).

[spencerflem]

It’s a very useful line in the sand. No Gen AI anywhere near art.

Once you add in a level of nuance, youre bickering about the degree which is far worse argument to be having, tactically.

[nostrebored]

So you're saying your perception of what is or isn't art is ideologically motivated? That seems like the worse "tactical" argument.

Why don't we scrap anything that uses ableton because it makes art sterile [1][2]. Or maybe anything that uses autotune [3]. Maybe we can have stickers that say "AI free". Or maybe the fact that suno is a distribution platform that doesn't encourage creation of the _form_ of art that that I like is the problem [4].

It's a tool. Your view that art exists in some purist state and isn't for people to enjoy is extremist. This war has been fought and lost, continuously, about every innovation in music. People want to enjoy things. You can tell by their pattern of consumption.

[1] https://www.wired.com/2002/05/laptop-2 [2] https://web.uvic.ca/~aschloss/publications/JNMR02_Dilemma_of... [3] https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/vocal-fixes [4] https://www.salon.com/2003/06/18/itunes_innovation

[spencerflem]

Yes, I oppose AI ideologically.

If you are against most uses but want to introduce nuance, my argument is that doing so normalizes the use for the majority of cases you do oppose and makes it harder to organize opposition.

If you’re cool with AI in all cases we don’t have much to talk about.

[aeon_ai]

Who knew that nuance was the enemy of rational thought.

[spencerflem]

It’s the enemy of successful organization.

I have thoughts on when AI is appropriate, but the conversations I want to be having is ‘how do we oppose AI’ and not ‘why is my specific definition of what is Ok better than your very similar one’.

Also, once Any AI is allowed, each step beyond that will be barely worth fighting for because it’s only just beyond acceptability.

[aeon_ai]

Turning conversations away from nuance and towards black/white thinking is precisely why we're in an increasingly polarized society.

You may see it as a means towards the collective action you'd prefer, but your argument is that sheep are easier to herd towards a goal you've already determined is "right" without inviting critical thought or analysis when you don't allow for nuance.

Even if true, I disagree with both your assertion that "organizing against AI" is the right path forward, and the approach to engaging in discourse.

[spencerflem]

I mean, you have AI in your name, of course you don’t :p

I also don’t really think the problem with society is that we’re ‘polarized’, a viewpoint which believes that there are merits to “both sides” of human rights issues.

[aeon_ai]

Must be nice to live in a world without trolley problems.

[nxpnsv]

I don't think I'm a hardcore slop hunter really. Suno was fun to play with, what comes out feels icky though. Perhaps that is because it is low effort though, my attempts certainly were.

[danielbln]

I'm very bullish on AI, but low effort outputs just lobbed over the fence in my direction (be that code, music, text) irk me to no end. And that's not even considering if something is tasteful or kitsch. So yeah, for me it's definitely that. Someone who puts in real work, and produces output with intent, I might still not like because it's not my taste, but at least I don't consider it slop.

Funnily enough, slop AI video I still get entertainment value out of, just because it's often so bizarre and absurd.