[Lio]

Are you seriously trying to suggest that monitoring of all private messages in Russia and China has stopped child abuse images from being shared?

That is preposterous.

We dismiss the suggestion of removing the right to privacy precisely because it doesn’t stop these crimes but it does support political repression.

The crimes go on, only criticism of the government for failing to address them is stopped.

EDIT: the more I reread your post the more I suspect this might be exactly the point you are making. Sorry, too subtle for me first thing in the morning. Need more coffee.

[pprotas]

That's not what they're saying. They're talking about how digital surveillance from governments leads to these governments staying in power

[lukan]

I think it is not clear.

"They're following a proven effective model for the outcomes they are looking for."

That reads like just stating government perspective.

"We do ourselves a disservice by acting like there is some inherent flaw in it."

But this says something different to me. Because yes, I do see it as a inherent flaw if governments focus is on things that are mainly good for the government. Government's job should be focusing on what is good for the people.

[inglor_cz]

C'mon, we all know that the main reason for such laws is controlling dissent.

Allegedly, Spanish police is a great supporter of Chat Control, not because of CP, but because of them wanting to spy on Catalan and Basque separatists more effectively.

[swiftcoder]

Is Catalan/Basque separatism still a thing, in the sense of violent outcomes (a la ETA)? I have the impression that it's become a fairly civil process (more along the lines of the Scottish or Bavarian independence movements)

[inglor_cz]

Catalan separatism was never violent and the Basques concluded peace with Madrid, which holds. So it is all political.

Several Catalan politicians were prosecuted for holding an "illegal referendum" and had to hide in Belgium for some time.

[1718627440]

I think when we want to get rid of violence to change borders (war), we must allow borders to be changed peacefully.