[zermelo]

To most of the commentators saying "why work when you're not getting paid", please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't federal employees not paid during a government shutdown getting retroactive pay once funding has been restored?

[shawn_w]

In theory, yes. But with this administration, who knows?

[jmtulloss]

A lot of commenters are focusing on the legalities and likelihood of backpay, which is relevant but I tend to agree with you… it’ll get paid because it’s in the interest of both parties to pay their employees what they’re owed.

We’re staring down the barrel of two missed paychecks though. If you're living paycheck to paycheck you’re getting desperate. If you’re living with about 1 month of emergency buffer… that buffer is one paycheck away from gone. It’s a cash flow issue

[thetron]

You can't buy food with an IOU from your employer.

[nocoiner]

Sometimes you can. A decade or so ago when California ran out of money, they issued warrants to their payees, and lots of banks accepted those at face value.

[dragonwriter]

Last time was July-August 2009 (and before that in 1992 and 1933.)

But those registered warrants aren’t abstract expectations of future payment, but debt instruments with a fixed interest rate when issued.

[thephyber]

In practice, most people in the US use credit (which means spending can go unpaid for about 25 days without any costs incurred) and most people bank with a national bank (so they are screwed if all federal employees stop paying back loans at the same time).

That said, food banks are gonna see lots more foot traffic and federal employees might start looking for other work.

[collinmcnulty]

Practically speaking, you are correct, but interestingly all dollars are literally an IOU from the US government, so you do buy food with an IOU from their employer. Debt from or to a sovereign is the basis for all money.

[lmm]

> You can't buy food with an IOU from your employer.

Historically in times of war or civil disorder it's often been possible.

[knollimar]

New startup idea?

[gazook89]

The administration has posited that they don’t have to do backpay for many positions. Currently, there is no reason anyone could expect norms to hold.

[lynndotpy]

As others have pointed out, this has gone on for a full month and this is increasingly unsustainable for people.

Essential employees were already guaranteed backpay, but in 2019, on day 26 of the 35-day shutdown during his first term, Trump signed GEFTA into law, guaranteeing that furloughed employees also got backpay.

But earlier this month, the White House issued a memo contradicting that, saying furloughed workers aren't entitled to backpay, and the OMB edited articles to delete references to the GEFTA.

Even though the GEFTA is law, we're seeing the Trump administration break laws all the time with no accountability, and so a broke federal employee would reasonably not anticipate a realistic, timely, and achievable legal recourse for a GEFTA violation while they're just trying to feed their family.

[wat10000]

They’re supposed to. I think even legally required to. But this administration doesn’t seem to care much about what it’s required to do.

In any case, many Americans have no appreciable savings. Getting paid someday when Congress gets its head out of its ass doesn’t feed your kids today.

[fragmede]

It's hard to eat retroactive dollars today. While some organizations are trying to make this sorta possible (specifically, I've heard that some banks are giving out loans to federal employees), why deal with all that and take out a loan when you could jump to that private sector job that your buddy's been trying to poach you for, for years? Y'know, the one that pays a lot better?

[metabagel]

This administration is just as likely to provide back pay only to ATC employees in states which voted for our God Emperor.

[dragonwriter]

Even if they will (which shouldn't be in doubt, but these are not normal times) it is still when they are not getting paid now, even if they will be paid some time after an event which is expected to occur at some uncertain time in the future finally happens.

[egonschiele]

Yes, but if you decide to leave your job during the shutdown (say to find more stable work), you do not get paid for the unpaid hours you worked.

And as others are saying, plenty of people can't afford to work for no pay indefinitely.

[fracus]

Of course they can. A bank would have no problems giving out loans given the pay is coming eventually.

[bashtoni]

I hope these hypothetical banks will also be giving these theoretical indefinite loans interest free.

[hshdhdhehd]

Citation? Who is giving unsecured pay day loans on unknown payday? If they did what would the interest be? 1000%?

[nobody9999]

>Citation? Who is giving unsecured pay day loans on unknown payday? If they did what would the interest be? 1000%?

I'm not a Federal employee and I don't know the details, but there's a banner on my bank's (Chase) website (after you log in) suggesting that they have mechanisms to assist those who aren't getting paid.

What those are, I have no idea. It may well be high interest loans or no interest loans. Or it may waive fees on overdrafts. Again, I don't know. But banks are taking note and communicating with their customers about it.

[hshdhdhehd]

I see. I imagine its good PR like that cafe giving free lunches in DC.

[AirMax98]

I worked at a payroll backed loan company and can say there is not many people in the space, for many good reasons.

These banks do not exist.

[JohnTHaller]

The Republicans are working on not paying many of federal employees. Plus, the federal employees that use them will lose SNAP benefits/food stamps tomorrow.

[bsder]

Only if you are an actual employee. If you are a contractor, probably not.

And a lot of the government is contractors.

[bee_rider]

Could be wrong, but IIRC congress has to explicitly approve the back pay. So, who knows if it’ll happen…

[zermelo]

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/24

Passed by Congress in January 2019 and signed by Trump. " Employees furloughed as a result of a lapse in appropriations shall be compensated for the period of the lapse on the earliest date possible after the lapse ends, regardless of scheduled pay dates. "

[lynndotpy]

Note that the White House issued a memo contradicting GEFTA, and the OMB removed references to it. Federal workers are spooked.

[zermelo]

Thanks for bringing it up. Link if someone is interested: https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/trump-administratio...

[array_key_first]

Communication from the WH has been so wild this administration. Just constant things that directly contradict the law.

[eszed]

"Furloughed" is the key term, there. Have they been?

[zermelo]

My understanding:

* excepted (essential) employees (including ATCs) are required to work, are not getting paid, but will be paid back for their work when Congress passes a new appropriations bill

* furloughed (non-essential) employees are told not to work, are not getting paid, but will be paid back under GEFTA once the shutdown ends, without any new law.

To be clear, I'm trying to state the facts, not my opinions.

[hshdhdhehd]

Why work in current job when you cant pay your rent today. Why not get a different job so you can.

[collingreen]

Just mozy on down to the job orchard and pick off a new job from the ATC career tree!

[recursive]

I don't think anyone knows.