[dottjt]

I think it's actually a bad thing to think about money early on. Because it adds a layer of responsibility which I think takes away from simply enjoying life and focusing on what you might be truly passionate about.

One of the things I hate about my 30s is that I'm focused on money now and it feels like I'm not living the life that I want. It just feels like I'm preparing for death.

Which I'm not saying isn't the sensible thing to do, there's just something inherently managerial about it which doesn't seem intuitive to living a meaningful life.

[ryandrake]

The earliest years of your earning life contribute overwhelmingly more to your final retirement figure than your later years. Anyone lucky enough to have a job in their teens that gives them disposable income after each paycheck really, really, really should be saving and investing. Like OP, if I was more serious about investing in my early years, I would be retired by now.

One can lead a meaningful, enjoyable life while also considering their finances.

[bluGill]

> The earliest years of your earning life contribute overwhelmingly more to your final retirement figure than your later years.

for most the amount we earn before about 25 is so little that even everything saved at the best return is insignifitant inretirement. at 25 a small percentage of your income saved becomes meaningful, but you are likely to earn enough more at 35 that the amount you can save then totals to more

[dottjt]

> One can lead a meaningful, enjoyable life while also considering their finances.

This is where I disagree. I think there's a certain amount of naivety required to pursue meaningful things. There's so much in life that makes no financial sense that creates meaning. The moment you start having to think sensibly from a financial perspective, is when so many of these things no longer make sense.

Once you're plugged into the system there's almost no turning back.

[whatevertrevor]

> There's so much in life that makes no financial sense that creates meaning. The moment you start having to think sensibly from a financial perspective, is when so many of these things no longer make sense.

I get the sentiment, but it implies the opposite of your conclusion.

Since so many things make no sense from a financial point of view, the only sensible strategy is to break free of the financial constraints as soon as possible. Money cannot buy you happiness, but it can buy you the freedom to pursue it.

Retire early to give yourself the best cushion (and best possible chance) to pursue meaningful things, without the everlooming sword of making ends meet. The added benefit of life experience to filter out pursuits that only look meaningful on the surface, is a nice side-effect of this strategy.

[dottjt]

> Since so many things make no sense from a financial point of view, the only sensible strategy is to break free of the financial constraints as soon as possible. Money cannot buy you happiness, but it can buy you the freedom to pursue it.

So I think the reason why this doesn't make sense (in my mind) is because in a state of retirement i.e. financial independence, you're still just as conscious of money as you were when you were accumulating wealth. You still need to manage money no different to when you were accumulating, it's just now you're not earning.

To me the freedom I'm referring to is similar to that of childhood - where you're not worried/concerned about "the system". You're just doing your own thing in your own world. That kind of purity no amount of money can resolve, even in an early retirement scenario.

The other issue is that a lot of stuff only makes sense when you're younger. Like it's a lot difficult for example to become a travelling musician or even to travel etc.

Now of course, early retirement provides it's own kind of freedom. But I would say that it's not equivalent to the kind of "freedom" that I'm referring to, which is basically being carefree.

[ryandrake]

> To me the freedom I'm referring to is similar to that of childhood - where you're not worried/concerned about "the system". You're just doing your own thing in your own world. That kind of purity no amount of money can resolve, even in an early retirement scenario.

The only ways you can live as an adult unconcerned about the system is 1. if you actually have a substantial financial backstop (trust fund, wealthy parents, etc.) and just pretend you don't, or 2. if you don't have a financial backstop, at which point "doing your own thing in the world" just means being a vagrant, drifter or bum.

[darkwater]

Oh, the FIRE community. If you trained yourself to live looking at the money you need to save to retire, your brain will most likely be wired to that behavior, and breaking free from that will be utterly difficult. On top of that, people with the FIRE mindset have probably by default already a strong (innate? taught?) bias towards enjoying optimizing their life and making it the end goal.

[whatevertrevor]

> Oh, the FIRE community.

I think you may be confused, I'm not part of the FIRE community. I'm only taking the statement that "doing meaningful things is not financially sensible" to its logical conclusion, not endorsing any position.

> If you trained yourself to live looking at the money you need to save to retire, your brain will most likely be wired to that behavior, and breaking free from that will be utterly difficult. On top of that, people with the FIRE mindset have probably by default already a strong (innate? taught?) bias towards enjoying optimizing their life and making it the end goal.

So many assumptions and claims without any supporting evidence:

- "FIRE people" train themselves to live looking at money only.

- This wires their brain to that behaviour (left unclear what this actually means in terms of concrete behaviour).

- Breaking free from this behaviour is difficult.

- People with this mindset have a bias towards enjoying optimizing their life, to the point this is their end goal.

- (Implied) This makes their life some combination of sad/bad/meaningless.

I don't really want to even argue against this because the burden of proof for providing any supporting evidence is yours, not mine. I'm not particularly interested in constructing some overarching psychoanalytic theories for a large category of people who I've never even interacted with, but you do you.

[darkwater]

Sorry, I wasn't addressing directly at you, even if I was technically answering to you. It was more of an unsolicited rambling about the general topic.

Sorry for that.

[com2kid]

> One of the things I hate about my 30s is that I'm focused on money now and it feels like I'm not living the life that I want. It just feels like I'm preparing for death.

FAANG job at 22. Save up 25k a year for 4 years, that is 100k. You'll already retire at 56 with over 1.5M in the bank. It isn't perfect but it is a lot better than what most people do.

Really all you need to do as a programmer is max out 401k and maybe throw another 10k a year into savings on top of that.

I worked at MSFT for a decade and I would have retired at 40 if I hadn't spent 3 years trying to run a startup after my time at Microsoft.

This includes international travel every year, and 2 domestic vacations.

[bluGill]

> You'll already retire at 56 with over 1.5M in the bank

That 1.5M isn't inflation adjusted. If there is 0 inflation between now and when you die 1.5M is plenty. However the more inflation there is between now and when you die the more money you will need, the later you need to retire, or the less spending money you have. (of course we need to asking how things like social security fits into your plans as well, but this is already complex enough).

If you 22 and used to a FAANG income even with saving $25k/year every year you need more than 3M to retire retire without losing quality of life (even though most of that is luxury).

Are you willing to live on less, or will you discover with your free time you want to spend more money (hobby supplies? Now you have time to travel - maybe first class). I can't answer this question for you, but you need to think about it. Worse, your answer is likely to change over time.