[whoooboyy]

Incredible HN post. I'm hoping it's because you are from a country where people are generally well taken care of.

Yes, there are people who don't invest. Where do they keep their retirement savings? 40-50% of Americans, at least, simply have no retirement savings! Most people in America aren't earning enough to put away a meaningful amount for retirement. It's going to be grim as boomers and millennials hit retirement age and have to keep working.

[singleshot_]

More than half of Americans are net debtors, with a negative net worth.

[dragonwriter]

> More than half of Americans are net debtors, with a negative net worth.

Median household net worth is around $193k, not negative. Maybe this is true on an individual basis because there a bunch of, say, young debtors and elderly parents who have transferred their positive assets living in households with working adults with more positive wealth than the youngsters and elders combined have net debt, but...

[koakuma-chan]

And it doesn't occur to them that they will need money when they're old and can't work? Incredible.

[czottmann]

I am very certain it does occur to them but they simply have no financial means to do anything about it. Which must be soul-crushing to them.

Rest assured it usually isn't their choice.

[koakuma-chan]

> Rest assured it usually isn't their choice.

People choose to marry, have kids, and buy a house.

[czottmann]

Your comments make me think you've never seen hardships in your life that weren't self-afflicted.

Life can be cruel even if you've made great plans and took all the precautions you could think of. Illnesses, accidents, the lack of a social net because your country was set up that way, crime, the list goes on.

[koakuma-chan]

Illnesses and accidents are exactly the things you need savings for, and aren't really relevant here because they don't prevent you from saving until and after they happen. The issue appears to be that 50% of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck and have no savings? I can't imagine how this could be anything other than them just spending money on shit they don't need.

And yes, I am assuming you live in a developed country. I have Ukranian citizenship and right now the Ukrainian government is abducting men who are over 24 years old and sends them to death. If you live in a country like that, true, you shouldn't worry about investing because you don't even have basic human rights.

[bilekas]

> The issue appears to be that 50% of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck and have no savings? I can't imagine how this could be anything other than them just spending money on shit they don't need.

Or that there's no standard minimum wage, or income protection if something does go wrong. Student debt is crippling to people in itself never mind hospital events.

That's so many people you should think "something must be wrong with the system"

> Illnesses and accidents are exactly the things you need savings for

It shouldn't be though, if you pay taxes, the government should be there for you in an emergency when it comes to health.

[whoooboyy]

Shit you don't need like what? Rent is over 40% of pre tax income for most Americans. Health care is 30% of income for lower income Americans.

That's not leaving a lot of space for food, clothing, heating, transportation, education, entertainment, etc.

[whoooboyy]

I.... they are dealing with systemic poverty. Being poor is expensive. They absolutely know they need to save, but if the choice is "starve to death today but save for retirement OR don't die, but don't save for retirement" most people are going to choose the latter.

[koakuma-chan]

I just checked and McDonald's pays $15 an hour, no? That's more than enough to not starve.

[InvisibleUp]

McDonald’s will not let you work 40 hours a week, or any consistent schedule at all. You will show up when they tell you to and that’s that. Same with grocery stores or most retail jobs.

Also you’re neglecting the cost of transportation (almost certainly a car, with gas and insurance), rent, and medical expenses.

[whoooboyy]

Median rent value in Seattle is $2300/month if you are looking for a one bedroom, a little cheaper if you are looking at a studio. Minimum wage here is $21/hr. The first quartile for rent is $1600.

Assuming you work full time, you are making $3360 a month, less taxes.

That means that even if you get the bottom 25% of rents, over half your take home pay goes to rent. Then we need health care, food, taxes, transportation, clothing, etc.

Not a lot of savings easily available there.

[koakuma-chan]

I rent a room. But to be fair when I first came to Canada and was told by a local "of course you won't get to have a whole apartment all to yourself" my mind was blown away.

[whoooboyy]

So people's work shouldn't result in private housing? That's an acceptable outcome? I'm not clear what your insinuation is here. People should live in communal bunks but also be saving for retirement?

[pton_xd]

They're worried about paying for their next trip to the dentist. Not working when they're old is not in the picture.

[91bananas]

This has to be satire at this point.

[micromacrofoot]

it does but they don't know how to change it

[mfro]

Wow, you are so out of touch