[plqa]

I would be very sad if I had to bring my children up in these kind of living conditions. I would much prefer a nice house in an area where we can enjoy nature a little but also be close enough to a city so we can access its services.

I had a great garden as a kid and access to one of the UK"s nicest woodland areas. I would be sad to not be able to give my children the same just so they can have 'friends in the same building'.

[rayiner]

To each his own, but what makes you think you can't enjoy nature in the city? I had a backyard growing up, but my daughter in Chicago is going to be walking distance from a 1,200 acre park with a zoo, a duck pond, and a flower conservatory, not to mention a beautiful lake to boat in.

I personally find suburbs tremendously lonely and isolated, especially for families where the parents don't have time to drive kids to activities and friends. I grew up in a suburb and since I was old enough to take care of my little brother the two of us would just hang around at our house until our parents came home. Weekends became a tiresome exercise in our parents driving us around to activities and friends. And my parents had very little social life outside the family because there was nobody we could just "pop over" to see. Social activities had to be coordinated evenings and with everyones' busy schedules it happened once every month or two.

And once the kids are old enough to drive--well I don't want my daughter driving. The great thing about cities for people with money is that they can buy security from the risks of city living: crime, etc. Upper-middle class white or asian kids are about the safest demographic in a city. But you can't buy yourself security from the risks of the suburbs. Teenagers with cars are the most endangered demographic in a suburb.

[yardie]

Proximity to green spaces is usually set by income. It's great that you are in within walking distance of a 1200 acre park with a zoo, duckpond, and conservatory. But what about someone making 1/2 to 1/4 your income? Shouldn't they have access to these things as well?

I grew up poor in the city and I grew up middle class in the suburbs. Turns out my single mom didn't make more money, it just went further in the suburbs. We even had a more active social life after leaving the city. We weren't allowed to go to the park because drug dealers and users had basically over ran it. I found a used condom in the sandpit and asked my mom to blow it up because I thought it was a balloon. After that incident we moved to a sunny suburb with a clean swimming pool, parks in every direction, and shopping center within walking distance.

The city is a great place to live if you have money, for everyone else the burbs aren't so bad.

[rayiner]

It's definitely true that the city is better for people with more money, but people in cities are usually paid more too. And the crossover point comes at different points in different cities. Here in Chicago, you don't need to be rich to afford an apartment in a tree-lined neighborhood near a park and a mile or so from the lake. It's even more true in smaller cities like Syracuse, etc, or satellite cities like Evanston or Aurora.

[Evbn]

Evanston is a suburb!

[plqa]

Who's talking about suburbs? That's still thinking in a city mindset.

I grew up in a 2500 person country side village in England. That village had everything we needed and it was only 30 minutes bus ride away from the neatest large town. It was also 45 mins train ride away from the nearest city.

[JonnieCache]

I hate to break it to you but there is about 100 square metres of "nature" in the UK. All those lovely rolling hills and hedgerows are about as natural as a betting shop under a multistorey carpark. There hasn't been much in the way of nature in this country for about a thousand years. Just enjoy what we have.

[sageikosa]

Not from England, but true dat. Once coal in England became cheaper than wood as a fuel source, the trees breathed a sigh of relief (more so once the British fleet switched from wooden construction to iron hulls).

[nvarsj]

Having grown up in the suburbs (with plenty of real woodlands around), I have the exact opposite feeling. The community, diversity, tolerance, and learning opportunities of a dense city are better than any suburb or small town. As far as nature goes, I just went fishing with my son the other day (in an abandoned quarry, funnily enough). My wife, who grew up in the countryside of U.K. feels the same way.

Disclaimer: I live in downtown Chicago.