[naikrovek]

they have definitely not completely switched sides. Linux is still clumsy and hard to configure if everything isn't configured for you. Linux has worse UX than Windows has ever had (I'm including windows 8 in that comparison)

Really liking Linux doesn't make Windows worse, and it doesn't make Linux better.

Watch someone who is not familiar with Linux and how it works attempt to install it and use it. Do not intervene. Now do that with a dozen different people on a dozen different machines which you do not preselect.

On Windows it is a much smoother experience.

I am making zero statements about any application compatibility or application comparisons between platforms. I am talking only about UX, UI, and installation.

Linux still has so, so very far to go.

And, honestly, there is no operating system which a complete newbie can start using without help in some form. Linux is not some golden child, here.

You like Linux on the desktop, and that's fine. Keep enjoying it. Just be aware that your experiences color your viewpoints, sometimes completely.

I am not a fan of Microsoft, I use Windows about once a month these days, but the UX difference between Linux and Windows is still very large. Very large.

[ruszki]

Yeah, I don’t understand the parent commenter either. Even with my latest laptop, it took days and weeks to make everything work (like audio, my monitors, DPI, VLC/mpv, even networking). And even then I had to turn off some hardware functionality, because it’s so buggy (bye-bye battery life). And this is before introducing Wayland for example…

Also installing is way easier for beginners with Windows. I’m happy that Linux installation now at least reached the level of Windows 98, but I still need to search for things every single time, even when I do it about every other years for several decades now. Just because somebody thought that it’s so important to ask simple users about an implementation detail which almost nobody care about. And this is before bugs… which I encounter quite frequently.

It’s getting better, but by not much. It could be a very stable OS with the right hardware even 20 years ago. That didn’t change, you still need to be very careful if you want a good experience with Linux and a GUI. I had no laptop or PC in the past 30 years on which I could install Linux without serious hiccups if I wanted anything more than terminal. I could almost always make it usable (it was impossible with one laptop), but I always had to give up something, like battery life, game performance, my headset at the time, etc. And of course a ton of time.

[Izkata]

That feels like bad luck to me. I've had a Dell, two Asus, and a ThinkPad over the past decade or so, and except for hibernate with the Dell, everything has just worked out out the box with no tinkering.

[ruszki]

With 2 ASUS? You seem to be the lucky one, not me. ASUS is quite infamous for more than a decade about its bad Linux support. Basic things can work sometimes well, but you need to be extremely lucky to have one which really completely works as intended, like temperature control.

[a5c11]

> Watch someone who is not familiar with Linux and how it works attempt to install it and use it.

What a dumb analogy. My mother can use Windows very well, it doesn't mean she could also install it. The same rule applies to most Windows users. That's why it comes preinstalled, and not with an attached bootable USB stick.

UX of recent Windows versions is crap. The bearish tendency started with 8 and have never recovered, with Windows 11 being the cherry on top of the crap. Telling that as a user of almost every Windows version since 3.11. Microsoft completely changes user interface with every recent version, this is an anti-pattern in UX world. How is that I can smoothly switch between Debian and macOS major updates, and when Windows does the same it is a nightmare? "Oh no, where are the network settings again..."

[pessimizer]

> Watch someone who is not familiar with Linux and how it works attempt to install it and use it. Do not intervene. Now do that with a dozen different people on a dozen different machines which you do not preselect.

Have you done this, or is this just a science fiction story? Have you watched a dozen people install Windows on a dozen different machines?

The reason people sorta know Windows is because they've already used it, not because it is good. And if you don't give them something straightforward like MATE or Cinnamon as a Linux desktop, you might as well compare it to new Vista users, not Win11 users.

You don't have to convince me that Gnome is bad. But everything else now pretty much follows the WinXP paradigm that we're all used to.

[keyringlight]

I think just saying "installing the OS" is a bit of a trap, that's step one, and important step but then you get to all the different subsets of features and software that they use, including not included in the OS or its repos.

When you're looking at consumer usage of a PC for anything that remotely makes sense to do on that platform I think windows has the advantage of decades of a different software ecosystem. Cumulatively there's a huge broad library of software that linux can't touch, or gets partway there but falls short. For example I can tag music files on linux, but it's painful compared to something like Mp3tag (which has been going for about 17 years). Or if I want fan control on my 9 year old intel platform I need to learn about and add a kernel parameter and manually detect sensors before I get started whereas it's straightforward on software available on windows.

[AlienRobot]

I wouldn't compare the installation process since most people can't install Windows, but Linux does have an astounding gap in basic usability.

Every time I see a gnome app without a menubar I can't help but feel like Linux shoots itself in the foot just because Windows has two feet.

[naikrovek]

Well, the comment I was replying to cited ease of installation, so I did, too.

> Linux shoots itself in the foot just because Windows has two feet

This is exactly the opinion that everyone who is not accustomed to all of the GNOME nonsense gets after using GNOME. And GNOME fans are far too used to things to even hear that it is imperfect.