[deanishe]

> I am saying you have to understand the revealed preference vs what people tell you.

And what they're saying is that this isn't just an indication of how awesome the US is compared to other places, but also of how averse Americans are to learning other languages compared to other people.

[guy_5676]

Very uncharitable way to phrase that, American second language prevalance is similar to other English dominant countries like the UK or the Australia.

Americans in general don't speak as many languages as Europeans because they already speak arguably the most useful language. I've lived in 20 countries, and in every single one for them I've been able to find someone who speaks English. People are so ingrained with the need to know the language that I've actually met people who are embarrassed about their English talking to me in their own native country.

If you grew up speaking Greek, Romanian, or even something like Italian, this absolutely would not be true. Maybe you could find a person or two to talk to, but definitely not dozens casually in everyday situations. So you have to learn multiple languages by necessity. And since European countries are so small, close together and all have their own languages, you also end up picking up your neighbors languages.

[keybored]

> Very uncharitable way to phrase that, American second language prevalance is similar to other English dominant countries like the UK or the Australia.

No. Yours is uncharitable because it has got nothing to do with how many languages you speak. This is not a multiglot competition. The only point being made is that someone with a fair amount of American exposure will have a head start emigrating to America compared to say an American to Latvia. Or France. Or Germany. Just on the language front in isolation/alone.

> Americans in general don't speak as many languages as Europeans because they already speak arguably the most useful language. I've lived in 20 countries, and in every single one for them I've been able to find someone who speaks English. People are so ingrained with the need to know the language that I've actually met people who are embarrassed about their English talking to me in their own native country.

Here’s an alternative explanation. These people were so gracious and willing to communicate with you, a foreigner, that they were flustered and embarrassed that their command of the English language did not allow them to express themselves as clearly as they could. Or maybe they were really just embarrassed to have insufficient command of the Master Language, I don’t know, maybe your version is correct.

> If you grew up speaking Greek, Romanian, or even something like Italian, this absolutely would not be true. Maybe you could find a person or two to talk to, but definitely not dozens casually in everyday situations. So you have to learn multiple languages by necessity. And since European countries are so small, close together and all have their own languages, you also end up picking up your neighbors languages.

For someone having lived in twenty countries you seem as wordly as a North Dakotan having travelled abroad three times. All to Winnipeg.

[guy_5676]

"No. Yours is uncharitable because it has got nothing to do with how many languages you speak. This is not a multiglot competition."

I was referring to this specific part of the comment I replied to: "Americans are averse to learning languages as opposed to other people". My response is a very accurate explanation of the reasons why this is a) an unfair way of looking at things, and b) not unique to Americans. What aspect of my response is uncharitable? I'm not saying things should be one way or another, just explaining how they are.

"Here’s an alternative explanation. These people were so gracious and willing to communicate with you, a foreigner, that they were flustered and embarrassed that their command of the English language did not allow them to express themselves as clearly as they could. "

The situation I described has occurred to me more then once, even after I tried to communicate in the local language. English speaking is a flex in a lot of the world and poor English is embarrassing. The desirability and prevalance of English may upset you, but it is objectively true. You can get English teaching jobs and find plenty of English speakers all over the planet. The same is not true for any of the other languages I mentioned in my post.

"For someone having lived in twenty countries you seem as wordly as a North Dakotan having travelled abroad three times. All to Winnipeg"

Lmao, why are you so angry? I grew up in Australia and south east asia.

[keybored]

> I was referring to this specific part of the comment I replied to: "Americans are averse to learning languages as opposed to other people". My response is a very accurate explanation of the reasons why this is a) an unfair way of looking at things, and b) not unique to Americans. What aspect of my response is uncharitable? I'm not saying things should be one way or another, just explaining how they are.

Okay that’s fair. I glossed over that part.

> The situation I described has occurred to me more then once, even after I tried to communicate in the local language.

Your interpretation of the chain of events perhaps.

One person goes to a country and meets kind strangers. “Wow, these people are nice to strangers”. Another person has the same experience. “Wow, these people must love me or X attribute.”

> English speaking is a flex in a lot of the world and poor English is embarrassing. The desirability and prevalance of English may upset you, but it is objectively true. You can get English teaching jobs and find plenty of English speakers all over the planet. The same is not true for any of the other languages I mentioned in my post.

I’m very upset that I speak English fluently. It really inconveniences me. > Lmao, why are you so angry? I grew up in Australia and south east asia.

Do you know what a comparison is? I did not call you an American. There’s no reason to take offense.

[guy_5676]

No, it is not my interpretation. You can be willfully ignorant about this if you want, but you are just plain wrong. I'm talking about countries I grew up in and went to school with the locals with. I know the norms of the people I was around better then you.

If you go to a place that views western culture through a looking glass and is trying to learn English to progress to a better point in life, English is cool, speaking English is cool. Not saying that is a good way for things to be (or that literally every person you will meet will have this mindset), but that is how it is for a significant portion of people.

"Do you know what a comparison is? I did not call you an American. There’s no reason to take offense"

I'm not offended, but your remark was a) clearly intended as an insult and b) demonstrated that you were likely stereotyping me on a very particular way, which runs completely contrary to my actual experience with these matters.

[keybored]

Okay. All fair points. :)