[notepad0x90]

it's possible,but iphones are apple's flagship product. it would be disastrous for them. i don't think any government contract is worth the cost. They're not google or Microsoft, they're not that big in the enterprise side of things.

I'm sure if such a relationship became public,most Americans will forget about it in few weeks time and half will be surprised what the big deal is. But apple will lose out on Asia and Europe where it has solid competition. Their hardware is their bread-and-butter.

It is more plausible for the US government to have planted or extorted an asset working as a developer at apple than apple itself making such a monumentally foolish decision.

Google and Microsoft on the other hand, that I am fairly certain of.

But... i digress a bit, only because Tim Cook was kissing the proverbial king's ring a lot lately. donations are one thing, giving gold gifts in person and on national tv is another.

[sschueller]

Tim Cook gifted trump a gold base with a glass plate on it like some peasant to a king in front of camers. Apple will bend over backwards to please governments so don't be surprised when it turns out not everything is as secure as claimed in their walled garden.

[nl]

I'm not a particular fan of Apple but the gold thing seemed like a good, cheap way to get on Trump's good side, which led to them somehow magically avoiding tariffs.

I don't think I'd read more into it than that.

[pprotas]

Yes, that is exactly the problem. No need to read more into it.

[jlarocco]

Yeah, that's always how bribery works.

From Wikipedia: "Bribery is the corrupt solicitation, payment, or acceptance of a private favor (a bribe) in exchange for official action."

[brookst]

Yes, everyone knows. It was transparently a bribe.

But let’s not motte bailey that into proof that Apple intentionally ships backdoors.

[VogonPoetry]

I view it more as a ransom / hostage payment or a response to bullying. There was a threat of tariffs; I'm going to hold your business hostage. The ransom was paid and the tariffs weren't imposed.

I think a bribe is better defined as "you cannot have this thing you want, unless you give me this". A quid pro quo.

I guess it comes down to who the "active" party was.

I would definitely call it a bribe if Tim Cook was the one that asked to get special treatment or lower Tariffs than anyone else and the response was give me a "gift".

Even if you believe it was a bribe, the value of it was purely symbolic. What was given wasn't a change in policy, it was a material gift of zero value to anyone else except for scrap. Others that have been subjected to this behavior have given up things like changes in hiring practices and working with "non favored" organizations.

[zimpenfish]

> the gold thing seemed like a good, cheap way to get on Trump's good side

Which, whilst morally repugnant, does make business sense - if Apple got hit by tariffs or other penalties, you can be sure the Carl Icahn style leeches would be popping out of the woodwork complaining that Tim Cook was ruining Apple / the share price / etc. and trying to orchestrate shareholder and/or board revolts.

(And Good Lord, imagine the threads on here if Apple's value dropped just because Tim Cook didn't give a hideous piece of tat to Trump.)

[throwaway48476]

Aren't gifts to the president kept by the government? In the US usually bribery is done by giving jobs to relatives or favorable contracts.

[mrbombastic]

Bribery can be done in a myriad of ways but the gift itself is not the valuable thing, it is the display of fealty.

[throwaway48476]

The point of a bribe is to receive something in exchange for something else.

[fsflover]

Loyalty was gifted.

[demarq]

It wouldn’t be a disaster, Apple already donates to the IDF. They literally have IDF among their staff.

How is none of this public knowledge

[vlovich123]

Active serving IDF are also employed by Apple? I know there’s a lot of ex-IDF people in Silicon Valley but since the IDF is mandatory all it means is ex-Israeli people. They could still be secretly working for the Mossad but that’s generally something you can claim true of all foreign nationals - they’re also possibly just normal people with talent and experience.

[demarq]

I’d like to clarify with a couple of questions.

- Are you saying that you believe apple is picking someone who is a real wizz with css, but because of the country’s laws they had to serve with the IDF?

- Are you saying the formality of having to be a former of your previous employer, as part of taking on new employment is to be unexpected in any way?

[vlovich123]

I really don’t understand the questions and they bely an ignorance of things or are intentionally provocative (and not coherent) but I’ll try.

Firstly, the exploits in play would not be introduced by a “css whiz kid” first of all. Creating holes for rootkits like Pegasus requires deep low level expertise.

Secondly, AFAIK all the teams that would be involved on working on that are located in Cupertino - so these people had to relocate to the US.

But yes, I think finding anyone who was a child in Israel and didn’t serve in the IDF is very difficult. This is doubly-so for the tech sector since the IDF is often where they obtain their initial technical education and are serving between 18 and 21.

Unless you’re blanket just going to disallow recruiting from Israel or hiring people who moved from Israel to the US and might even be US citizens. But then you’re also going to have to explain why you’re applying this policy to Israelis and not Koreans, Singaporeans, Taiwanese, Norwegians, who have similar mandatory service requirements (plenty of countries do).

I’m not saying that Mossad don’t try to get their own secret agents working long term undercover in these places. But that’s also true of other secret services of enemies and allies alike and I would think they’re less likely to generate exploits intentionally and more likely to gather information and look for exploits by having access to source, documentation, and able to get information from peers. But Israelis having previously worked in the IDF doesn’t really provide any signal to me on the motivations or beliefs of that person.

[demarq]

> But Israelis having previously worked in the IDF doesn’t really provide any signal to me on the motivations or beliefs of that person

You know what, you’re absolutely right. But you’d be wrong if it turns out it’s not the general IDF we’re talking about, and specifically not one all Israelis have to serve. And that Google has all the good stuff.

But anyway I’m going to let you believe what you believe about a corporation that makes “donations” to a military, and I’m going to believe what I believe.

[vlovich123]

Can you elaborate so I can educate myself? Speaking in innuendo isn’t helpful for a discussion like this.

[LtdJorge]

Are you saying that Apple should ban hiring Israelis since all of them have to serve in the IDF?

[op00to]

Can you try your questions again, but this time coherently?

[wat10000]

The Israeli military takes corporate donations?

[andrewflnr]

> It is more plausible for the US government to have planted or extorted an asset working as a developer at apple

This is indeed how I read the comment you replied to.

[notepad0x90]

I read it as saying apple's leadership is complicit and cooperating like Google's and Microsoft's have been.

[andrewflnr]

The phrase "someone inside Apple" doesn't really connote top leadership. To me at least it resonates more with "insider threat". If they meant it was corporate policy, they would have just said "Apple". And as you said it's rather implausible to start, so I don't know why that would be your first interpretation. :)

[notepad0x90]

I took "inside apple" to be "inside apple leadership" but your interpretation is valid as well, and it's one i agree with.

[aucisson_masque]

> I'm sure if such a relationship became public,most Americans will forget about it in few weeks time and half will be surprised what the big deal is. But apple will lose out on Asia and Europe where it has solid competition. Their hardware is their bread-and-butter.

Everyone is somewhat aware that their phone are not impermeable to government agencies and it doesn't matter, that's the case for Americans of course because they are well used to it, but also for Europeans.

If they were to purposely make 'mistake' to allow Israeli spying companies to compromise their phone, it most likely wouldn't change anything.

[whatevaa]

It wouldn't be disastrous. Most won't care. A lot of fanatic fans would buy an i-dildo if that was ever a thing and would say that it's the best thing ever.

[DonHopkins]

Say Hellohhhh to iBrator (which came in color everywhere, 26 years ago):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqN6749QqtA

[kjs3]

an i-dildo if that was ever a thing

Like https://www.amazon.com/app-controlled-vibrator/s?k=app+contr... ?

Is there a "Rule 34" type proclamation where if it exists someone will add an app to it whether it needs it or not.