[cyberax]

Regulation is not a problem, and even the construction costs are not terrible. We can take the Rooppur NPP as a base, it produces reliable energy at 6-7 cents per kWh. The reason for cost overruns is simply because NPPs are one-off products, the Western countries don't have a pipeline for NPP production.

For comparison, utility-scale solar with 16 hours of storage is 21 cents: https://www.utilitydive.com/news/higher-renewable-energy-cos...

Just raw solar without storage can be as low as 2-3 cents per kWh.

[pfdietz]

If I understand correctly, the cost/year of an engineer in India is maybe 1/3rd that in the US, and for general labor the disparity is even larger. So it shouldn't be too surprising NPP construction in India is cheaper than in the US. India doesn't have a large NPP pipeline, they just have cheaper labor.

[cyberax]

(Bangladesh, not India)

Yes, but solar power panels are also mostly produced in China, where engineers still get less than 1/3 of the US/Europe salary.

European power plants will be more expensive, but even with the LCOE of 12 (twice that of Rooppur) it's still going to be way cheaper than storage for areas that get cold weather (Midwest, Germany, most of China).

Anything south of California? Yeah, just get solar+wind, no need to bother with nuclear.

[pfdietz]

As we pointed out, PV is still trouncing nuclear in China. So if the difference is smaller there, it's still in favor of solar.

Storage is another matter here, but even there costs for batteries have simply collapsed. Understand that massive storage is needed even in a nuclear-powered economy. If all the 283 million cars and trucks in the US were replaced with 70 kWh BEVs, the storage would be enough to power the US grid (at its current average consumption) for 40 hours. That's a lot of batteries. So the demand is there to continue to drive them down their experience curves. In China, they're already around $50/kWh for installed grid storage systems (not just cell price).

The final storage problem, the only reed that nuclear can be clinging to at this point, is long term/seasonal storage. That's needed either to smooth wind variability (~ week scale) or to move solar from summer to winter (~6 months). There are at least two different ways this could be solved: hydrogen and heat. As mentioned elsewhere in these threads, the latter is very promising, with capex as little as $1/kWh of storage capacity and a RTE of about 40%. Should that work out anywhere close to that nuclear would be in a hopeless position anywhere in the world, even at very high latitudes.

[cyberax]

> As we pointed out, PV is still trouncing nuclear in China. So if the difference is smaller there, it's still in favor of solar.

Sure. Solar is easy to scale when you don't care about reliability, nobody is arguing with that. But it's another issue entirely when you need a stable grid.

I'm not aware of any countries (even tropical ones) that managed anything close to 100% renewables with solar. E.g. Hawaii has to pay for extremely expensive diesel generation even though they have plenty of solar potential.

[pfdietz]

And nuclear is scalable if you force other sources off the grid in favor of nuclear (and force customers to not use renewables "behind the meter").

In a fair grid, solar and wind get built out, and the residual demand has no baseload component. Unless nuclear is given the right to force other sources off the grid it becomes inappropriate.

In Texas now there is no chance of new nuclear construction. ERCOT is a competitive market and new nuclear simply doesn't make sense.

[cyberax]

> And nuclear is scalable if you force other sources off the grid in favor of nuclear (and force customers to not use renewables "behind the meter").

Not really? Nuclear is not any different from coal. And plenty of countries have coal generation in the mix. France also is majority-nuclear.

And so far, nuclear is the second known technology (after hydro) that actually demonstrated close to 100% fossil-free grid.

So far, there is nothing similar for solar. Even though it's supposed to be oh-so-cheap.

> In Texas now there is no chance of new nuclear construction. ERCOT is a competitive market and new nuclear simply doesn't make sense.

Well, yeah. Because they can just allow the grid to die during the next Arctic air blast.

[apendleton]

> The reason for cost overruns is simply because NPPs are one-off products

But there's no fundamental reason they _have_ to be one-off products. They just historically have been for at least partly regulatorily motivated reasons: because each reactor's approval process starts afresh (or rather, did until quite-recent NRC reforms), there's little advantage in reuse, and because many compliance costs are both high and fixed, there's an incentive to build fewer huge reactors rather than more small ones, which makes factory construction difficult to achieve and economies of scale hard to realize.

[pfdietz]

Civil engineering involves adapting any design to the local geology. This has to be custom for each site.