[lmm]

> The annoying thing here is that it's simply not true, especially in regards to men. It's still the norm to be told to suck it up, or you're not a real man.

It's also the norm to be told that you need to be vulnerable and share your trauma and you're lesser if you don't. Men get shamed for both not being enough of a victim and being too much of a victim, and have no winning move.

[ryan_lane]

> It's also the norm to be told that you need to be vulnerable and share your trauma and you're lesser if you don't.

I think the norm now is that you should share your trauma with a therapist, to help heal. I can't imagine telling anyone to share their trauma, regardless of gender.

> and have no winning move.

This is a common incel talking point, and to be honest I don't think it has basis in reality. It's totally fine to share with a therapist and I don't know who would criticize someone for it. If a friend criticizes you for going to therapy, they aren't a friend.

Should you be able to also share with your friend? Yeah, but there's also the concept of trauma dumping, where you use your friends as a therapist, and that has its own problems. Sometimes folks aren't in the right mental space to hear your problems, especially depending on the context (like, were you abused as a child? maybe they were too).

[lmm]

> This is a common incel talking point, and to be honest I don't think it has basis in reality. It's totally fine to share with a therapist and I don't know who would criticize someone for it. If a friend criticizes you for going to therapy, they aren't a friend.

> Should you be able to also share with your friend?

Why did you leap from talking about incels to talking about friends? It's not friends that are the problem, it's partners, for whom it really does seem to be normal to both expect and demand that you share your weaknesses with them, and then get the ick when you do.

[ryan_lane]

> Why did you leap from talking about incels to talking about friends? It's not friends that are the problem, it's partners

Because most of the people saying this kind of stuff tend to be incels, who famously don't have partners.

But my point about friends also applies to partners. Some stuff you need to work out in therapy. Your partner isn't your therapist, and treating them that way gives them the ick, especially early in a relationship.

You're forcing them to bear your trauma. You can expect people really far into a relationship to do this to a point (like nearing engagement, already engaged, or married), but even then it's more fair to share your trauma after you've learned how to bear it yourself, with the help of a professional. Partners should know about your past, especially as it may affect your behavior, but they shouldn't be forced to help you resolve your emotional issues.

[sapphicsnail]

That pressure is largely coming from other men. I don't know many women who want to date a guy who's unable to be vulnerable. I think if men made more space for each other to be something other than angry y'all would find life a lot more pleasant.

[lmm]

> That pressure is largely coming from other men.

Not my experience.

> I don't know many women who want to date a guy who's unable to be vulnerable.

Indeed, at least in theory. Unfortunately they also don't want to date a guy who's shown actual vulnerability to them.

[Eisenstein]

> Men get shamed for both not being enough of a victim and being too much of a victim, and have no winning move.

Can you expand on that? When you say that they get shamed, who or what is causing it?