[DyslexicAtheist]

the new Defender got to be the worst Land Rover ever built. It has terrible off-road capability even compared to the other (non Defender models like the Range). JLR alienated their entire existing Defender drivers where hardly any of them would buy this new model.

Granted, they also alienated their user base when the traditional TDI was replaced with the TD5 and then more alienation when they introduced the TD4.

But the latest thing (L663) has nothing in common with any of the previous models. (probably due to pedestrian safety laws becoming more strict)

[rob]

> the new Defender got to be the worst Land Rover ever built

No it isn't. I own a 2022 D90 P300 with 18" wheels, coils, front jump seat, everything. It's been great for ~40,000 miles. I'm constantly on dirt and rocky roads here. It's never let me down.

They're used by tons of people for offroading and modified heavily as well, with companies like Sarek, Lucky8, etc.

The only people who hate on new Defenders are the ones that love the ~25 year old versions with 200,000 miles, tons of rust, a diesel engine that can barely make it to highway speeds, and spends more time in the garage every weekend than "exploring." But hey, they're cooler than us because they work on their cars and have a manual transmission.

[glenngillen]

Same. My in-laws are Toyota Land Cruiser people, heavily involved with the local clubs. FIL even runs their driver training programs. Was very anti us getting a Defender and said we'd regret it. When we did the training the main problem we had was getting it stuck, because part of the training was learning how to use a winch or straps to get yourself out when you're bogged. We were able to drive out of anything. Now his only criticism is it's not as much fun to drive because it takes less skill (which is exactly what I wanted. I want to get places, not necessarily challenge myself to get there though). It's also a much better finish than the Toyotas. It's not much more expensive than their latest fully optioned Land Cruiser, but everything about the inside of LC feels like it's not been updated since the late 90s. And plenty about it that actually feels cheap (and before anyone weighs in, not in a way that is designed to wear and tear. Just cheap and lazy).

The few annoyances we've had LR have resolved for us at zero cost, even when we were out of warranty.

[rob]

Yup, the new Defender is amazing. I use mine as a daily driver and love it. You can drive 4,000 miles across country in comfort/luxury and then still have advanced off-roading capabilities in mud, sand, rocks, etc. It's the best of both worlds. All with a warranty.

What's funnier is most of the "new" Defender owners I meet love the old ones (including me, I miss driving manual.) It's the old owners that still seem to have an attitude (calling them "Pretenders", etc.)

[LtdJorge]

The problem I see, is that while the electronic assists and auto gearbox are great in general and win over the older generation everytime in comparisons, having a mild electrical problem or a malfunction in any electronic module would render it basically unusable.

My father told me many stories about the old Land Rovers they had in the military service in Spain. One time, he successfully climbed a hill with two captains after snapping the back axle (the one coming from the transfer case), by locking the differential. These new machines rely too much on electronics without backup, I believe.

Also, and this is fully my opinion, I would never take an automatix off-road.

[hollywood_court]

Let's check back in a few years and see how many of those new Defenders ever make it to 100k miles.

[DyslexicAtheist]

interesting, all I find are harsh critiques.

I'm genuinely interested whether you have some reviews that point to how great the new model performs:

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgk0Wl4ap6I - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi1k-zUPFH4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh2AjbzR9TI