[esrauch]

The Chinese citizens are certainly socially notably different from Western nations; it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with culture, and to assume that they are just the same as us just because biologically they are no different is silly. People are a largely a product of their upbringing; Americans 50 years ago certainly are different than Americans today.

Several of my friends have spent years working in China and they all comment about how almost no one believes in individualism in the same way that the average American does; that they don't care about civil rights or liberties (or give lip service to such ideals). That really does sound "different than us" to me.

[boboblong]

"The Chinese citizens are certainly socially notably different from Western nations; it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with culture..."

Probably not. Why would it be 100% cultural and 0% biological? Because it makes you uncomfortable to admit any other possibility? I'm sorry, but reality doesn't care about your comfort level. It could be 100% cultural and 0% biological, or 90/10, or 50/50, or 20/80. I don't believe that the 100/0 scenario is very likely, because--despite your baseless assertion to the contrary--there are in fact real biological differences between East Asians and Europeans (or East Asians and South Asians, or any other racial group).

[esrauch]

Obviously I can't say for sure, all I can speak to is anecdotal evidence that racially Chinese in America observably seem the same as Caucasian Americans in my experience. Even if there is some genetic difference, it seems clear that the vast majority of the difference is cultural and not genetic.

[boboblong]

"Even if there is some genetic difference, it seems clear that the vast majority of the difference is cultural and not genetic."

This is just a rephrasing of the original baseless assertion. The relative contribution of genetic and cultural factors to group differences is not at all clear.

[ktizo]

You appear to be arguing that local cultural factors when growing up are not responsible for the vast majority of differences in individual cultural behaviour when compared to genetic differences. From this it would seem safe to assume that you believe that a lot of cultural behaviour is not learned, but is encoded within the genome as some form of cultural predestination, which is then presumably expressed at the neuronal level while growing up. This would seem to fly in the face of pretty much all studies into brain plasticity and childhood development, and also makes no sense given the range of genetic diversity of the population we are discussing, which is one that contains well over a billion people.

[boboblong]

That's not at all what I'm arguing. Nice strawman though.

[ktizo]

What is your position then? As you seem to be just criticising other people's positions without putting forward what you actually think the situation is. If your position is just that we just don't completely know the situation, then that is fair enough, but that doesn't mean that all possibilities are equally likely.