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by BurningFrog 243 days ago
Penrose may well be completely wrong about this, but I think he's easily done enough important science work to not be called a crank.
1 comments

You can be a genius in one field and a crank in another.

For example: Penrose.

This feels a bit like a circular argument.
How about Linus Pauling and vitamin C then?
It happens. It’s surely possible. But does it happen enough that anytime a Nobel laureate says something a little out there, this is the immediate explanation?

Especially if what he’s saying has lacks a major hallmark of crackpot theories. That is he is very open to his theory being wrong and he won’t even say that it’s probably correct. He just thinks it’s possible and would like to see more work done on it.

Yes in that when they something outside their field that’s ‘a little out there’ Nobel laureate’s aren’t as a group more useful than random noise. Similarly a crank can happen to say a true statement, but the issue is the process with which the statement is derived is flawed to the point of uselessness.

The derogatory aspect of calling someone a crank is obviously uncalled for, but as a shorthand it’s not unreasonable to use the term.

If a Nobel laureate says they have an interesting hypothesis that they’d like test and that idea isn’t obviously impossible, it’s probably best not to dismiss it as crank science.

Walter Alvarez is another Nobel laureate who proposed a theory that an asteroid wiped out the dinosaurs. Many people thought that was crank science.

And it’s important to note he had another out there idea that there were hidden chambers in the pyramids of Egypt. That one turned out to be wrong.

What distinguished his theories from crank science is that he was open to the idea that they were wrong and was interested in actually using the scientific method to investigate them.

Yeah, that's fair.
Maybe review what a circular argument is, because that isn't one.
Sure! Happy to. Here's an example of a circular argument: "Penrose could be a crank. We know that kind of thing is possible because, for instance, Penrose is a crank."
The argument made was nothing like that. The assertion made was

"You can be a genius in one field and a crank in another."

Supporting evidence was offered: "For example: Penrose."

One can dispute the evidence, but there's nothing circular about the argument--your version is a strawman created precisely in an attempt to turn a non-circular argument into a circular one. And even rejecting that evidence there's plenty of other evidence and others here gave examples. Not that examples are even needed, as the assertion is self-evident, and was offered as a counter to a textbook fallacious argument from authority: "he's easily done enough important science work to not be called a crank". There is no basis at all for such a claim. Perhaps Penrose is not a crank in re consciousness, but it certainly doesn't follow from the fact that he's done the highest caliber non-crank science ... that claim is fallacious, disingenuous, and intellectually dishonest.

> If any one cares about this, please hit "parent" a few times to see what everybody said.

They will see that I accurately quoted what was said and my correspondent did not, twisting it into a circular argument when it wasn't.

If any one cares about this, please hit "parent" a few times to see what everybody said.
I think of Linus Pauling
The fact that you couldn't pick a different person as an example makes for a very weak assertion.
There's no evidence that they couldn't pick a different person. There are quite a few other persons and some other commenters pointed out some of them.
Newton.
Newton pretty much invented several fields of science, like Classical Mechanics, Optics, Calculus, and Gravitational Astronomy.

He started out as a novice in all of them.

That Alchemy failed to pan out as a science doesn't make him a crank in my book. You can't know Alchemy is impossible until you try pretty hard.

or even within the same field! Further examples: Newton, Chomsky