[cdfsdsadsa]

>The way we protect British kids from the Internet is to make better and more capable Britons, rather than to try and kidproof the entire internet.

If only it were that easy. For me as a parent, my approach is to implement a "Great personal firewall" - that is, internet restrictions that decrease over time as they mature, and starting with essentially zero access. Unfortunately, it's probably doomed to fail as other kids their age (5 + 7) and in their peer groups are already walking around with smartphones.

To put it bluntly, too many parents are too unenaged and lazy (or self-centered).

[vkazanov]

Same problem. Tried to balance some kind of freedom with limitations but it just didn't work. Then I found discord, read through some chats...

Now it's just outright forbidden to have anything with a chat. And no Internet.

The problem is that other 10 year old have mobiles, free PC access, etc, so there constant peer pressure.

[Woodi]

Some peoples are funny :) And there are parents ;)

Kids go to school, have lessons, right ? And few minutes breaks between lessons ? How that parents want to censorship what kids talk about ? Not to mention phones use. And why exactly ?

Thing is as it always is: parents make fundamens in culture/world view eg via their views and religion they subscribe. And then society and reality takes over. What society you have ?

[anal_reactor]

Not exactly. Before smartphones, sure, you weren't able to police the kid 24/7. The kid gets out of the house, comes back in the evening, god knows what happened in the meantime. But nowadays parents actually do have the means to exercise absolute control over their kids. That's a huge game-changer. First, most of interaction happens online. If you ban the kid from the internet, your kid won't have friends, problem solved. And it's not like kids nowadays rush to gather outside.

[mkesper]

Adults grooming children in chats is absolutely a thing, this is completely different from talking any way they feel like to their peers face to face.

[vkazanov]

Grooming is exactly what scared the shit out of me in my kid's Discord. Teenagers promoting sex to children. Well these idiots at least have a hormonal excuse. But adults hanging out online with children and teenagers...

I don't remember this in my late 90s LAN chats.

[simmerup]

I remember it in late 90s neopets forums and habbo hotel

[Cthulhu_]

Exactly, plus there's free, mostly unrestricted wifi everywhere. If your child has some pocket or birthday money they can freely spend, they can walk into an electronics store, buy a cheap smartphone or tablet and have unrestricted access.

At home measures are at best a delay, not a fix. What you also have to do is actually communicate with your child. If you're strict about what they can and cannot do on the internet, they will feel shame for doing it anyway, which may also mean they would be too ashamed to talk to their parents if for example they are getting groomed online.

[cdfsdsadsa]

That was originally going to be my plan - my kids can have a smartphone when they can afford to buy one themselves. I figured that by this point they would be old and experienced enough to deal with it. As I pointed out above, some of their peers at ages 5-7 already have parentally-supplied smartphones. It sucks that I'm probably going to have to talk to my currently 5-year-old girl very soon about what the internet has to offer.

[array_key_first]

You don't need a perfect fix.

I'm sorry, but if you're threat model is your kid getting a fucking burner phone, I don't know what to tell you.

Even this law won't fix it! Why, couldnt your kid just save up and buy a plane ticket to the US?? Oh no .. we need a global law don't we?

Or, maybe, we throw away that thinking and acknowledge that the problem is not that big and solving 99% of it is MORE than good enough.

Your kid is way more likely to die in a car wreck. Focus on that or something.

[hdgvhicv]

If the government wanted to do something it would enforce optional controls for the bill payer, and provide decent training (via videos and in person in libraries) on how to use parental controls.

I tried setting up parental controls on Fortnite and it was a nightmare, having threats multiple accounts with multiple providers, it felt very much designed to force people to go “ahh forget it”.

[Cthulhu_]

> it would enforce optional controls for the bill payer,

They do; in the UK, if you want to have access to porn, you need to tell your ISP and they will unblock it.

Of course, that's a game of whack-a-mole because you can render porn in Minecraft servers or join one of many communities on Whatsapp or Discord if needs be. It mainly blocks the well-known bigger porn sites.

[hdgvhicv]

In which case there is no need for anything else.

[est]

I have thought about this for a really, really long time.

The conclusion is, it's a service problem, not a howto-block problem

kid-friendly content is under supplied and often bad maintained.

To quote GabeN: Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem

[Cthulhu_]

How much would be enough supply, in your opinion? Because there is a lot, there is no shortage.

But it's not forbidden or hidden away, so kids aren't curious about it.

[est]

> Because there is a lot, there is no shortage.

Yes, but the problem is, many (if not most) of those content or services were created by adults and dispised by kids.

pick one your kid's most interested topic, are there enough kid-friendly content/services that fulfills all the needs?

[quitit]

I believe it should be a layered approach.

1. Educate children about bad actors and scams. (We already do this in off-line contexts.)

2. Use available tools to limit exposure. Without this children will run into such content even when not seeking it. As demonstrated with Tiktok seemingly sending new accounts to sexualised content,(1) and Google/Meta's pathetic ad controls.

3. Be firm about when is the right age to have their own phone. There is zero possibility that they'll be able to have one secretly without a responsible parent discovering it.

4. Schools should not permit phone use during school time (enforced in numerous regions already.)

5. If governments have particular issues with websites, they can use their existing powers to block or limit access. While this is "whack-a-mole", the idea of asking each offshore offending website to comply is also "whack-a-mole" and a longer path to the intended goal.

6. Don't make the EU's "cookies" mistake. E.g. If the goal is to block tracking, then outlaw tracking, do not enact proxy rules that serve only as creative challenges to keep the status quo.

and the big one:

7. Parents must accept that their children will be exposed at some level, and need to be actively involved in the lives of their children so they can answer questions. This also means parenting in a way that doesn't condemn the child needlessly - condemnation is a sure strategy to ensure that the child won't approach their parents for help or with their questions.

Also some tips:

1. Set an example on appropriate use of social media. Doom scrolling on Tiktok and instagram in front of children is setting a bad example. Some housekeeping on personal behaviours will have a run on effect.

2. If they have social media accounts the algorithm is at some point going to recommend them to you. Be vigilant, but also handle the situation appropriately, jumping to condemnation just makes the child better at hiding their activity.

3. Don't post photos of your children online. It's not just an invasion of their privacy, but pedophile groups are known to collect, categorise and share even seemingly benign photos.

1. https://globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/digital-threats/tikto...

[willis936]

The government can't make parents not be bad parents.

[eqvinox]

Okay, but just blocking content isn't much better than being unengaged, in the long term. They will get exposed anyway, if only from a friend (whose parents are unengaged and lazy) who has no restrictions on their phone. The important thing is to teach and train media skills. Teaching an understanding that comment sections are cesspools and amplify negative feedback. Teaching that people flame because it's so much easier than keeping silent, or putting in the thought to say something useful. Teaching that there are truly horrendous things on the Internet.

[cdfsdsadsa]

That's exactly my point. They are likely to get exposed to the worst of the internet at a significantly younger age than they will have the maturity and experience to handle (and younger than I can have any hope of trying to coach them in), all thanks to parents who give young kids (I'm talking 8 and younger) smartphones to keep them quiet.

My oldest girl is 5. She's already very aware that other kids in her class have access to tablets and phones. How on earth do I responsibly explain to her the dangers? I have enough trouble asking her to get dressed and keep her nappy dry at night.

[skeezyjefferson]

in all seriousness, what do you fear?

[cdfsdsadsa]

Abusive online relationships. An attention-suck that I can't handle as an adult, with the corresponding lack of development of other life skills that I consider essential to a successful and fulfilled life.

I say "I consider", because skills self-evidently essential to a good life (emotional regulation, focus and attention span, ability to read other people's emotional states, effective communication, physical skills) are increasingly not generally considered that way.

[skeezyjefferson]

in terms of speech development, TV was found to be a massive benefit in increasing vocabulary - how are you so sure the internet (nebulously defined as that is) is detrimental to communication abilities, arent they on there talking to their friends?. And if we are talking about the internet in general and not just twitter/tiktok, then its largely NOT doomscrolling and ragebait. Hackernews (heck, every single news organisation EVER) has an "algorithm" for "increasing engagement", books are written to increase engagement, its been going on for centuries but only since social media appeared do we suddenly dislike it.

[cdfsdsadsa]

> TV was found to be a massive benefit in increasing vocabulary

By who, and for who? My kids (ages 5+7) watch significantly less TV than their peers (as well as currently almost zero internet access), and are frequently complimented on their command of vocabulary and ability to express themselves.

>And if we are talking about the internet in general and not just twitter/tiktok, then its largely NOT doomscrolling and ragebait.

By amount of time that people spend on the internet, it is mostly doomscrolling and ragebait. If only we could take that part of it away.

[skeezyjefferson]

>By who, and for who?

ages 0-6, increased vocabulary with increased screen time https://srcd.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/cdev.13927

> My kids (ages 5+7) watch significantly less TV than their peers (as well as currently almost zero internet access), and are frequently complimented on their command of vocabulary and ability to express themselves.

Compliments are nice I suppose, but theyre a poor metric when regarding vocabulary size.

> By amount of time that people spend on the internet, it is mostly doomscrolling and ragebait. If only we could take that part of it away.

"most" people I assume doesnt include you? Youre too smart to fall for it, obviously.

[cdfsdsadsa]

Have you read the paper you linked? It indicates at best a slightly positive outcome on average, with many caveats (video is worse, the younger the kid the worse the effect, removing educational content results in a negative correlation, etc). It also links to another metastudy that covers a larger age range, and indicates a negative correlation.

>theyre a poor metric when regarding vocabulary size.

I'm talking about school reports, among other things.

>"most" people I assume doesnt include you? Youre too smart to fall for it, obviously.

It's something I struggle with daily, and have put a lot of thought into what I want from my use of online technology. Eg, I don't have a smartphone. How can a kid be expected to make good choices if I can't?