[benmercer_dev]

Surgeons had long learned sewing skills from their mothers, sisters, and wives. But in 1901, surgical trainee Alexis Carrel’s mother sent him to someone more gifted, Marie-Ann Leroudier, embroideress of Paris’s high society

I'm curious how important agility with hands are for modern surgeons compared to anatomy and medical knowledge in general. What makes a "great surgeon" today?

[eszed]

It's still super important. Surgeons endlessly practice abstruse knots and take out high-value insurance policies against losing hands or fingers or manual dexterity.

Source: surgeons in my family and wider sphere of acquaintance.

[IAmBroom]

Abstruse? Difficult to understand? Isn't is mostly just extra wraps on a square knot?

Now, difficult to tie I'll grant: fingers and string both covered in blood and possibly fatty residue, time crunch, limited access...

[eszed]

"Abstruse knotting techniques" would probably be more a more accurate phrase. I've listened in on two surgeons discuss at great length and in detail the merits of which knot and access path to use for, say, tying off a vein one-handed, by feel, when it's located somewhere behind another organ. The decision is complicated, so far as I was able to understand the conversation, by the patient's current blood volume and rate of loss.

[abdulhaq]

Tie that kidney off for me would you please nurse, my date is waiting for me. Two bowlines and a sheepshank should suffice.

[pyuser583]

Why not take out a policy against not being able to practice your profession? Wouldn't they be in a bad spot if they lost their eyesight, but kept their dexterity?

[eszed]

I dunno. That's probably what it is - but I've more generally heard it expressed as "my hands are insured for [$x million]". One friend would say that as a pure status brag, and my uncle to explain why he wouldn't play basketball with the rest of the family.

[elric]

I visited a surgical museum once (somewhere in Scotland IIRC). They hade a mock "robotic assisted" sewing setup. Basically you look into a microscope and have to use two manipulator arms to tie a knot. I've never struggled so much with such a seemingly simple task, the amount of concentration and fingerspitzengefühl required was more than I could muster. It was a real eye opener to surgical skill.

[knotimpressed]

Ahhhh fingerspitzengefühl, I forgot about that one. Thank you for reminding me, I need to start using it more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerspitzengef%C3%BChl

[kaikai]

Sounds like the Surgeons Hall Museum in Edinburgh. I saw the same display there in 2018.