[dijit]

Ok, so.. I don't know how to say this without sounding insensitive, but I'm a pretty traditional looking (albeit perhaps short) British, blue-eyed, white guy.

I have seriously never had a positive interaction with the US border force. Wether it's the TSA or another associated organisation (since I've been pestered by people who are not TSA).

I've been detained, questioned, randomly selected, given contradictory rules by different people, had things randomly confiscated and even been insulted.

I'm not confrontational, and I don't believe I stand out.

I have had exactly ONE positive interaction (in 2011) whereby I had accidentally travelled with a pocket knife in my checked luggage and due to the fact I was not allowed to check my luggage on the return journey (due to the train being delayed going into Newark; seriously, I understand why Americans distrust public transport) - I told the TSA agent about it and he was kind regarding it, offering condolences, but obviously destroying the knife.

I'm not sure if I'm on some kind of easing program to disincentivise me in particular from visiting the US, but I could easily see that if I was anything other than what I am in terms of race/religion/looks/citizenship: that I would presume that this was the reason.

And, for context, I've been to the US on average twice per year in the last 15 years, so this is my experience from around 30 trips, and 60-ish interactions with the international air apparatus.

It's a pretty decent country once I'm in though, though I wouldn't want to live there.

EDIT: I'm not sure why the parent is being downvoted, his anecdote is the same as mine.

[ceejayoz]

Both things can be true; that it's on average a shitty experience, and that it's on average an even shittier experience for folks of certain demographics.

[dijit]

I genuinely can't understand how it can be shittier.

Unless they're taking liberties with your wife and children or something.

[ceejayoz]

You can't imagine a shittier outcome for bringing a banned weapon into an airport than "I told the TSA agent about it and he was kind regarding it, offering condolences"?

[dijit]

That was my one positive interaction, and yes it could have gone a lot worse, as mentioned. 1/60 is not exactly batting a thousand.

Every other interaction, I can't imagine being worse. Rude, tense, confusing, authoritarian with arbitrary detainment - with no acknowledgement of time or empathy for your own obligations (to board the plane for example); and heaven help you if you express your frustration.

[ceejayoz]

> Every other interaction, I can't imagine being worse. Rude, tense, confusing and authoritarian; and heaven help you if you express your frustration.

https://publicintegrity.org/inequality-poverty-opportunity/i...

"Yet in these suits, innocent women — including minor girls — who were not found with any contraband say CBP officers subjected them to harsh interrogation that led to indignities that included unreasonable strip searches while menstruating to prohibited genital probing. Some women were also handcuffed and transported to hospitals where, against their will, they underwent pelvic exams, X-rays and in one case, drugging via IV, according to suits. Invasive medical procedures require a detainee’s consent or a warrant. In two cases, women were billed for procedures."

[kragen]

> Every other interaction, I can't imagine being worse.

Oh, I can help you with that!

> Arar was detained during a layover at John F. Kennedy International Airport in September 2002 on his way home to Canada from a family vacation in Tunis.[1] He was held without charges in solitary confinement in the United States for nearly two weeks, questioned, and denied meaningful access to a lawyer.[1][2] The US government suspected him of being a member of Al Qaeda and deported him, not to Canada, his current home and the passport on which he was travelling, but to Syria.[3][4] He was detained in Syria for almost a year, during which time he was tortured by Syrian authorities, according to the findings of a commission of inquiry ordered by the Canadian government, until his release to Canada. The Syrian government later stated that Arar was "completely innocent."[5][6] A Canadian commission publicly cleared Arar of any links to terrorism, and the government of Canada later settled out of court with Arar. He received C$10.5 million and Prime Minister Stephen Harper formally apologized to Arar for Canada's role in his "terrible ordeal."[7][8] Arar's story is frequently referred to as "extraordinary rendition" but the US government insisted it was a case of deportation.[14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar

Hopefully, given that little intuition pump, you can also imagine that he could have died from the torture instead of ever returning home.

[guerrilla]

Exactly. This is what I mean.

[JumpCrisscross]

> I have seriously never had a positive interaction with the US border force. Wether it's the TSA or another associated organisation (since I've been pestered by people who are not TSA)

The trick is to pay to not interact. Global Entry, TSA PreCheck with Digital ID, et cetera.

And for the record, I'm dark-eyed and brown skinned. There are absolutely racists in the Trump administration. But they don't seem to have co-opted this element yet. Instead, it just presents the classic American preference for wealth.

(Note: I'm not endorsing the system. TSA PreCheck makes sense; the fee for it does not. Same for Global Entry.)

[singron]

These days at many airports, precheck has the same procedures as normal screening. You keep your shoes on, laptops and liquids stay in the bag, and you don't show a boarding pass. And the lines are the same length.

Global entry is a real difference, but you need to travel internationally quite a bit to make the application/renewal process worth it (conditional approval backlog is 12-24 months now, although it seems you skip to the front just in time to do interview-on-arrival on your next trip).

[nirav72]

by the way - You can use Global Entry ID# for precheck during domestic travel. My precheck was expiring and I had called specifically for a question. Their support person told me that since I recently signed up for global entry, I didn't need to get precheck. So even if you don't travel internationally often, but might - then its worth it to get Global entry. Of course if you don't plan on ever travelling outside of the U.S ,then yeah no reason to get it.

[more_corn]

I call it the travel bribe. It excuses you from security theater. If you have an airline credit card they also reimburse the cost of the bribe.

[hitarpetar]

you meant to write unequal treatment for the wealthy right?

[JumpCrisscross]

> you meant to write unequal treatment for the wealthy right?

Yes. I'm not endorsing the system. Just stating why folks on HN might be having wildly different experiences.

Broadly speaking, if you have to interact with border control or airport security, you're going to have a bad time. The stupid, lazy and mean are overrepresented in their ranks. You may have a slightly-worse time with particularly physical affects. But I've absolutely watched my British-accented white friend from Atlanta get singled out every time for fuckery by their TSA.

If, on the other hand, you get the unequal wealth treatment, you won't see a disparity. Because there isn't one. You're rarely interacting with a human being.

[hopelite]

Ah yes, the “give in to the system” strategy to avoid the deliberate conditioning to force everyone into the panopticon.

One easy trick to world domination prison planet…

[JumpCrisscross]

> the “give in to the system” strategy to avoid the deliberate conditioning to force everyone into the panopticon

I'm not sure what I'm giving up by ceding fingerprints and a picture to a government agency that almost certainly already has both.

[hopelite]

It’s not the simple act of just “giving them what they likely already have” once that house booked about 20 years ago. And yes, I can sue you the government had way more on me, but I seem to at least realize that that stallion is long gone.

You seem to represent a rather is phenomenon in society though. For a lack of a better term at the moment; the shift or maybe even deliberate psychological manipulation of society, civilization, culture towards not only a passive, depressive state, but also a kind of self-harming, self-destructive, nihilistic state of “what does it even matter anymore” and “I probably deserve the abuse of my abusers” type of mentality. A variation of that is “I’m not sure what I’m giving up by ceding…” an odd fatalism.