[demaga]

> you can do that with web apps

And this is not even always possible. In Ukraine, government app is released as an app, not a web service. Same goes for banking app. You just can't do these things from other devices, you must have (mainstream) Android or Apple phone.

I've been looking into projects like GrapheneOS for a while now, but it is just impossible to use in Ukraine.

[MrDrMcCoy]

Genuinely curious: why can't you use GrapheneOS in Ukraine? Most Android apps work perfectly. In my case, the only ones that don't are the ones made by lazy developers who rely on location data that I deny. They claim to work without it, but obviously never tested.

[demaga]

Maybe I can after all! I saw on reddit people complaining about banking apps not working, so I just assumed mine would not work as well. But according to this list [1], the biggest Ukrainian banks are supported. Nice

I can't find any info on the government app though. It might not work. But still, I can actually consider GrapheneOS now.

[1] https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

[franga2000]

If it's a government app, you can pressure the government in many more way than you can let's say a bank - and FSF has experience in that kind of pressure. I hope their technical initiative also comes with a parallel legal/policy initiative that tries to get governments to stop using things like attestation.

[ZoomZoomZoom]

> If it's a government app, you can pressure the government in many more way than you can let's say a bank

Many more, like?

For an individual, almost none. I can boycott a bank (if it's not a government one), I can't boycott my own government, only leave.

An organization can start an initiative, but without an interested party involved it's only an initiative, you can hardly call it "pressure".

[franga2000]

You can't boycott a bank, they all do the same shit and you need to have one.

With a government, however, you can go through your MPs, use administrative procedures to lodge complaints, etc. They also don't have Visa/Mastercard forcing them into attestation, it's usually just because the contractor thought it made things More Secure™.