[JumpCrisscross]

> the virtual cold war against the personal finances of foreign citizenry

Comparing a scam to war is inaccurate. The Cold War was a war running cold with the potential to go hot. Cambodia and America are not going to war over this.

[bobthepanda]

Interestingly enough, China is thought to have leaned on the scales in Myanmar’s civil conflict due to pig-butchering there. (Not only were they scamming Chinese, they were also human trafficking them to operate the scams.)

[alephnerd]

China only began executing those pig-butcherers when the EAO that was providing protection to Chinese pig-butchering gangs in that region of Myanmar (Kachin Independence Army) re-flipped towards India recently [0] and had begun to ignore China [1] and rerouting rare earths and other goods to India [2]

Meanwhile, China never cracked down against similar scams in Cambodia. Most notably, Prince Group remains unsanctioned in China and it's leadership are Mainland Chinese in origin.

While pig butchering (along with opium and human trafficking and other organized crime activities) are a major reason behind Chinese involvement in Myanmar, ignoring the very real proxy war going on between Chinese and Indian interests in Myanmar fails to contextualize some of the decisions that both countries make within Myanmar.

This also explains why you don't see a similar crackdown in Cambodia, which is solidly within the Chinese sphere at this point.

[0] - https://www.stimson.org/2025/rare-earths-and-realpolitik-fut...

[1] - https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/war-against-the-junta/ignorin...

[2] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/india-explores-rare-eart...

[yorwba]

> the EAO that was providing protection to Chinese pig-butchering gangs in that region of Myanmar (Kachin Independence Army)

Kachin is not a relevant location of scam centers. You can find articles that claim otherwise, e.g. https://www.ctol.digital/news/inside-worlds-largest-scam-emp... but from the fact that they mention the Thai border and the city of Myawaddy, which is in Kayin/Karen State, it's clear that they're just confusing Kachin and Kayin.

The Kachin Independence Army seems to finance itself through mining instead.

While it's true that some scammers were recently sentenced to death in China https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c78nrx309kzo and this only happened after the Kachin Independence Army disrupted the rare-earth trade with China, that's just a temporal coincidence. The scammers were captured in 2023 in Laukkai in northern Shan State near the Chinese border by the MNDAA (an anti-junta armed group dominated by ethnic Chinese) as part of Operation 1027. China is rumored to have assisted the operation in order to crack down on the scam centers in junta-controlled territory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_1027#Cyber-scamming_... The Kachin Independence Army also participated in Operation 1027, but in Kachin, not Shan.

I don't know about Cambodia.

[alephnerd]

The MNDAA is a close ally of the KIA as both are members of the Northern Alliance, and all the Northern Alliance members saw their relations with China tank after Chinese brokered talks with the Tatmadaw failed [0] last December.

As a result of that failure, all the Northern Alliance members began trying to pivot to other states or in the case of the MNDAA faced the brunt of the Chinese crackdown.

[0] - https://www.bnionline.net/en/news/juntamndaa-peace-talks-doo...

[yorwba]

All of that postdates the MNDAA crackdown on scam centers, during which relations with China were excellent. It seems like after Operation 1027, the junta got the message and started handing over their own allies in the scam industry https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/myanmar-junta-transfers... at which point China didn't have much reason to continue supporting anti-junta forces in their offensive and preferred freezing the frontline with a ceasefire instead.

Maybe the reduction of Chinese support encouraged the Kachin Independence Army to seek cooperation with India, but you seemed to be claiming that causality was in the opposite direction (while also misidentifying who was running the scam centers), which I think is clearly contradicted by the timeline of events.

[bobbiechen]

That's interesting - I had seen some news articles reporting that some Chinese pig butchering scammers were encouraging others to target foreigners only, and exclude the mainland Chinese. Like this one: https://globalinitiative.net/analysis/chinas-acquiescence-to...

It's reminiscent of stories about Russian malware doing nothing on machines with Cyrillic keyboard layouts.

[alephnerd]

Yep, but notice how that article is about Kokang in Myanmar as well.

Cambodia continues to have scam centers targeting Putonghua speakers (including PRC nationals), but there hasn't been a similar crackdown on such activities due to Chinese pressure.

The crackdown in Kokang happened after China flipped to supporting the Tatmadaw against the Northern Alliance [0] and India began peeling historically India-aligned members of the alliance like the KIA and the Arakan Army back into Indian orbit [1].

P.S. Circa 2 years ago, a large portion of Chinese in SF Chinatown became Kokang and Cambodian Chinese. Bamar, Kuki-Zo, and Kachin Myanmarese primarily reside in Daly City, Ingleside/Outer Mission, and Oakland/East Bay.

SF has a lot of Asian and Latiné subcultures and communities - it's kind of insane how underdocumented it is under the guise of "Asian" and "Latino"

[0] - https://www.stimson.org/2025/too-little-too-late-china-steps...

[1] - https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/india-extends-unp...

[powerapple]

China does not have a way to deal with crime in Cambodia. It does not have anti-terrorism law to operate in other countries, also it does not want to upset Cambodia or Myanmar government when not necessary. These Chinese operates in Cambodia are mostly on the wanted list anyway, they don't plan to go back to China. In fact, a person leaving China to Cambodia and Myanmar will be checked and make sure their trip is innocent. Personally I hate these scammers, they have ruined so many people's lives. It seems that it will never go away. Too much money involved. I wish we can launch drone attacks on these places.

[JumpCrisscross]

> It does not have anti-terrorism law to operate in other countries

China literally runs black ops offices in New York [1] and Australia.

> also it does not want to upset Cambodia or Myanmar government when not necessary

There is no government in Myanmar. China (and India) heavily intervene in that conflict.

[1] https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/new-york-resident-pl...

[JKCalhoun]

> The Cold War was a war running cold with the potential to go hot

I'm not sure I buy that definition. I think most understand a Cold War to be simply a "war" done without weapons but by other means — via economic means, propaganda, etc.

[ratelimitsteve]

that stretches the definition of war to mean anything that benefits one state over another, though. that might be a valid definition, but if we're gonna have a real discussion we're gonna have to differentiate between that sort of war and the sort of war where people kill one another with weapons and agree from the start which one we're talking about.

[xnx]

The US is blowing up alleged drug boats and their crews so anything is possible.

[greenchair]

that's a pretty naive view of war. we are at war with many countries all the time, most of it is cold.

[JumpCrisscross]

> we are at war with many countries all the time, most of it is cold

Like whom? We (and let's be honest, every other great power) are at war with many countries all of the time, and while they may be cold for long stretches, they absolutely (a) go hot from time to time and (b) are constantly threatening to go hot.

[jowea]

Maybe we should call it "conflict", and include non-state actors.

[h33t-l4x0r]

Let's go with macro-aggressions and put trigger warnings on them

[_carbyau_]

I this similar concept, differently.

To me "war" is a state of "no rules" hurting. IE nuclear, biological, any weapon goes. Anything less is an exercise in restraint - even if still quite terrible in it's own right.

Which means there are lots of "exercises" of varying lethality, risk profiles, spheres of influence, etc. And yes many countries are jockeying against other countries in varying ways.

Large scale scams against other countries could be seen as an unintended (not a planned government action) exercise that is condoned by the government.