[sgustard]

I'm willing to see a difference in software standards between (say) Waymo and Jeep. One is a software company, the other is a sheet-metal company. If you just tar the whole industry you lose an ability to learn from those doing it better.

[galangalalgol]

Tesla is very controversial, and they have clearly made some serious software mistakes, but they are so much better at software than any other maker I've encountered, except maybe mazda who eschew touch screens for physical buttons, but that is a ui success, not a software culture success. Tesla wrapped an electric car around a software company. They treated fit and finish and panel mating etc. as the throwaway/buy it cheap aspect (ok that is pretty harsh. It isn't that bad) and focused on the software. Where legacy makers did the opposite.

[throw-10-13]

Lol people are being trapped in their teslas because the electronic locks fail.

[eldaisfish]

you are being generous. Tesla's software "mistakes" have killed several people. They needlessly try to reinvent the wheel in the name of innovation and end up ignoring decades of auto industry knowledge.

I do not trust them and never will. This is the #1 reason why every car is buy is just a car. I do not trust techbros with devices that can kill you, especially cars.

[galangalalgol]

The software mistakes that killed people were software doing things no other automaker even tries to do. Very possibly with good reason. The software that does bog standard normal things like coolant control and battery preconditioning works well and seems to be tested and deployed in a reliable way. That is still so much better than what we get out of others. I would love an electric car with no can bus or microcontrollers, so I'm right with you. If anything the point to be made is that Tesla, who has killed people with its software, is still way better than average... So yeah, we are bad at what we do.

[saghm]

> doing things no other automaker even tries to do

"Move fast and break things" is not really a virtue when the thing moving fast is a two-ton hunk of steel and the things breaking are people's bodies. Getting the easier stuff right but then then also killing people isn't "doing better" in my opinion; sometimes it's better to have a lot of lower magnitude failures than infrequent but catastrophic ones.

[decimalenough]

I presume you're referring to Autopilot/FSD. I don't trust it at all, don't use it on my Tesla, and will not get into a "robotaxi" using it, but it's an optional feature.

Autopilot aside, though, the regular boring car software bits are rock-solid, and I've never had an issue with using it or after an update.

[jamincan]

I do recall a story a number of years ago where one of the automatic updates changed the UI and hid the defrost behind a menu (or something along those lines). I don't know that anyone died as a consequence, but it was criticised as being quite reckless as it is a feature that when you need it, you need it right away.

[ROOFLES]

Probably because the regular boring car stuff is not even made by car companies anymore LMAO. The steering racks are made by Bosch or maybe ZF. Brakes come from Brembo. ABS module and its software is Bosch aswell. same goes for brakebooster, EPS pumps, AC compressors, and airbag controllers. I think the only electronics Tesla develops and manufactures are EV power electronics, infotainment, ADAS&Co and the drive motors.

[decimalenough]

We're talking about software here, not hardware.

[jansper39]

If you take a VW Golf, you'll find the ECU and all of the software running the car is built by Bosch too. Essentially they sell VW a kit which needs to be mounted on a vehicle platform. Tesla is likely one of the only companies for better or worse that don't follow this model.

[xenadu02]

> you are being generous. Tesla's software "mistakes" have killed several people.

Citation needed.

In the early days of autopilot/FSD most of the fatalities were people doing stupid things like watching a movie or sleeping in the back seat. That's why it now has to monitor your face with a camera to detect whether or not you are watching the road - to stop people from being idiots.

However we must acknowledge that any change in the automotive space is going to lead to problems and some percentage of those are going to cause injuries. That is the nature of cars. They do not have the certification standards of aircraft nor the training of pilots. They can't and they won't.

It is also inevitable that autonomous driving is going to make different mistakes than a person would make. On a miles-driven basis it still produces fewer accidents and injuries than human drivers.