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by Nilocshot 245 days ago
This is where I like things like Tilt. If you're deploying to a k8s cluster, it's probably a good idea to do local dev in as close to a similar environment as possible.

Bit more of an initial hurdle than "just run the docker image"; however.
1 comments
stackskipton 245 days ago
I've look at Tilt and it's another abstraction for Kubernetes which rarely ends well at scale.

However, most of time, Devs don't need to develop on Kubernetes since it's just Container Runtime and Networking Layer they don't care about. They run container, they connect to HTTP endpoint to talk to other containers, they are happy. Details are left to us Ops people.

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fragmede 245 days ago
It seems contradictory to say that Tilt is an abstraction over kubernetes and say that won't work at scale, but then volunteer ops to be a layer of abstraction over kubernetes as a solution.

FWIW, Skaffold.dev is similar to Tilt, and has been working out great. "skaffold dev" on the cli or the corresponding button in the users IDE starts up a local kube cluster (minikube), the dev code in a container, any other configured containers, optionally opening a port to attach a debugger, and watches the code for changes and restarts the container with the dev code when there's changes. Developers aren't beholder to the capacity of whoever's on call on the ops team to manage the containers they need to be productive. The details of pods and CRDs and helm and ArgoCD and kubectl are abstracted away for them. They just run "skaffold dev" and edit code. Ops gets to run "skaffold render" to build and tag images, and generate the corresponding kubernetes manifest.

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stackskipton 245 days ago
Ops is not a layer of abstraction over Kubernetes no more then Dev is layer of abstraction over Python. We both have different responsibilities and thinking that Ops is just missing one more library is why it goes so wrong.

Kubernetes is massive beast and I get it. It feels extremely overcomplicated for "Please for the love of all that holy, just run this container." However, trying to abstract away such complexity is like trying to use Golang with some Python to Golang cross compiler. It works until it you need some feature and then oh god, all hell breaks loose.

I have not played with scaffold either but I will say. scaffold render should not be Ops job, I find it goes best when Devs present artifact they believe is ready for production and I can slot into the system. Otherwise, the friction between Devs handing Ops what they think is possibly buildable artifact quickly becomes untenable.

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