[omnimus]

Yeah... no. This is normal with desktop computers. Let's stop handholding people. If I trust the source, I trust the domain... I want to be able to install app from its source.

Googles/Apples argument would have been much stronger if their stores managed to not allow scams/malware/bad apps to their store but this is not the case. They want to have the full control without having the full responsibility. It's just powergrab.

[JohnTHaller]

It's normal for Windows and *nix, not for modern macOS which has big limitations on unsigned apps requiring command line and control panel shenanigans.

[raw_anon_1111]

And you are completely ignoring viruses, ransomware, keyloggers, the 50 toolbars etc that has been the staple of Windows and before that DOS for over 40 years.

Scam apps are rife in the iOS App Store. But what they can’t do easily install viruses that affect anything out of its sandbox, keyloggers, etc

[getpokedagain]

You are missing the part where the OS provider is the virus and keylogger. Unless of course you feel it reasonable that google and apple datamine everything you type via their software keyboard[0] or reading the contents of your notifications via play services[1].

0 - https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/16046-google-keyboard-w-net... 1 - https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/sandboxed-google-play-pr...

[raw_anon_1111]

You mean if you run an OS made by a company whose whole profit model is based on tracking users so they can advertise to you is invading your privacy?

[omnimus]

Sandboxing isn't feature dependent on Apple being a big curator is it? These are orthogonal but not the same issues. I've never said that PCs don't have viruses or that it isn't a problem, only that I should be able to install software from developer I trust if I want to.

I agree let's have sandboxed app instalations on platforms. Flatpak is already going this way. But it looks like big players Microsoft,Apple and Google are gatekeeping app sandboxing behind their stores instead of allowing people/devs to use sandboxing directly.

[raw_anon_1111]

And then there will still be complaints about Google limiting what apps can do and take away “your freedom”. What happens when a third party app wants to be able to read in other apps internal storage to create a back up solution like iCloud? Should that be allowed? What about if they want to create an app that autocompletes what you type when working in another app requiring key logger like capabilities?

[heavyset_go]

What part of "I should be able to install software from developer I trust if I want to" was hard to understand?

[raw_anon_1111]

Then you don’t want sandboxing if you want all of those permissions.

[heavyset_go]

You can have sandboxing and run whatever you want. I do it every day on PCs where I, the user, can define the terms of sandboxing any appliclation I want, and not a trillion dollar corporation using sandboxes to enforce their chosen revenue streams upon users.

[ptrl600]

Sure I do. I sandbox what I want when I want.

[xigoi]

The toolbars don’t just magically appear there. They are the product of a technically illiterate user.

[raw_anon_1111]

Yes because technically literate users shouldn’t have trusted mainstream companies to not install bundle ware back in the Day? They shouldn’t have trusted Zoom not to install a web server on Macs surreptitiously that caused a vulnerability? They shouldn’t have searched Google for printer drivers not knowing that it was a fake printer driver? They shouldn’t have trusted Facebook when they installed VPN software that tracked all of their traffic from any app?

Is that really your answer? To make the phone ecosystem as fraught as Windows PCs for the average user? How is they worked out for PC users since the 80s?

[orangecat]

How is they worked out for PC users since the 80s?

Just to be clear, are you claiming that we would be better off if PC hardware and OS vendors had the level of control that smartphone vendors do today?

[raw_anon_1111]

For almost every user - yes. If apps had to run in a strict sandbox it would be better for most users. Where it would make you jump through an incredible number of hoops or even install “developer editions” of operating systems.

You really can’t trust developers to do the right thing - even major developers like Zoom (the secret web server) , Facebook (the VPN that trashed usage actoss apps on iOS) and Google (convincing consumers to install corporate certificates to track usages on iOS).

Even more to the point, you read about some app installed outside of the Google Play store that’s malware - including the official side loaded version of FortNite…

https://blog.checkpoint.com/research/fortnite-vulnerability-...

[orangecat]

I appreciate your response even though I strongly disagree.

You really can’t trust developers to do the right thing

Indeed not, and that includes OS developers. Imagine if Microsoft had been able to block web browsers other than IE in the name of "security".

[Wowfunhappy]

Technically illiterate users should leave the default security settings enabled.

In the modern day, I actually think this mostly works? Are you aware of instances where normies installed Windows malware because they purposefully disabled Windows Defender?

Everyone always talks about the "Dancing Bunnies Problem" but I'm not convinced it's actually a thing.

[raw_anon_1111]

You mean like all of the ransomware that is being reported on a monthly basis? My mom looked for a printer driver by searching on Google and installed some type of crap that wasn’t the official driver. She is 80. But she has actively been using computers since we had an Apple //e in the house in 1986.

On the Mac, people installed Zoom and it installed a backdoor web server.

[BenjiWiebe]

Please install an ad blocker on your mom's computer, if you haven't already. Not every fake driver etc gets blocked by an ad blocker, but the majority do.

[Wowfunhappy]

I'm explicitly only talking about ransomware that requires disabling Windows Defender.

[debtta]

The default security settings only got to be the way they are after more than a decade of exploited windows xp machines breaking the whole internet.