[tatsuke95]

>"Although I am Canadian I spent my middle school and high school years in Raleigh, NC"

>"After I graduated from McGill in June"

Curious, did you pay out-of-country tuition rates to attend school here? I hope so, considering you didn't live, nor plan to work here.

Keeping in mind that all I have to go on is this little tale, I ask because it seems like you (and your family) have done a lot of walking through the grey area of immigration, skirting rules to take advantage of what both countries offer their citizens. Apparently it caught up to you.

Edit: For the downvoters: I'm Canadian. I don't appreciate that someone who essentially grew up in the US came back here to take advantage of our federal and provincial tax-dollar subsidized resident tuition, only to turn around and leave the country for the US again the instant he graduated. Had he never left the US for school, would this have happened?

[grouma]

I did not pay out-of-country tuition rates. I did have to pay out-of-province tuition rates though. (McGill is located in Quebec, Canada). I also applied to various NC universities and I would have had to pay out-of-country tuition rates.

[tatsuke95]

On a personal level, I feel bad that your best laid plans were crushed.

But from an outsider's perspective, I'm not shocked that, eventually, someone stopped you and said, "Not all is as it seems here." It's a tough economic climate out there, and people tend to get defensive when it comes to jobs.

[ktizo]

I'm not shocked that, eventually, someone stopped you and said, "Not all is as it seems here."

I completely agree. I mean, who is going to believe such an absurd cover story as a family moving around between countries and working and going to school and stuff. What did they think they were up to? I bet they didn't even get permission from their feudal lord before daring to be found walking abroad. Don't they know the penalty for being a vagabond? Get the iron hot so we can brand them as a warning not to abuse their fealty.

Next we can go and hunt down Paddington Bear, the little marmalade eating bastard. No one asks what he was doing at Paddington Station in the first place. It should be obvious to any right thinking people that he was nothing but a top Peruvian operative, embedded in the heart of London society to incite anarchy and loose talk.

[bosch]

I don't understand why people are down voting this comment. It seems like the OP is a "citizen of convenience" like those in Lebanon who only wanted to make use of their Canadian citizenship when war broke out despite the fact that some of them hadn't been back to Canada in 5+ years.

Not that this really has a place in the main discussion, although it does involve citizenship in a different way.

[grouma]

I understand your point of view. I didn't return to Canada for convenience though. I returned because McGill is phenomenal school. Moreover, I knew I would need to do internships during university. This would not be possible while under my mother's TN visa.

[bosch]

I appreciate your story, but it's very frustrating when people like you take away spots in tax payer funded universities from REAL Canadians who plan on staying and working to make this country a better place.

I hope the laws get changed to avoid loopholes like this in the future.

[ktizo]

Do things become more real if you say real in capital letters?

[ktizo]

It seems like the OP is a "citizen of convenience" like those in Lebanon who only wanted to make use of their Canadian citizenship when war broke out

How unimaginably selfish of them, trying to avoid death by manipulating poor hardworking taxpayers with their use of "documents" and "citizenship" and other bits of magic paper.

[refurb]

I'm not sure you fully appreciate the uproar that it caused during the last war in Lebanon.

It's a relatively straightforward process to get Canadian citizenship. Many Canadian started to question the process that allowed someone raised in another country to come to Canada, gain citizenship in 4 to 5 years, then go back to their home country with no intention of ever returning or contributing to Canadian society again, except under the situation where their current country is residence becomes uninhabitable.

[ktizo]

Sounds to me like thoroughly sensible and responsible behaviour. If I lived in a country that was on the brink of war I would also cover all bases. If I had kids, I would almost definitely try and arrange something like this.

And besides, what skin does it take off your back if someone does this? When those people are in the country, they will generally be working and paying taxes. When they are not in the country they are working and paying taxes somewhere else. And what difference does it make if they come back to go snowboarding, or come back because their country has just gone boom? Patriotism is not a required trait to be a good person.

[refurb]

Oh, I don't disagree at all that it's a smart move. If I lived in an unstable country, I'd likely do the same.

However, the question is is Canada getting the short end of the stick? If you are a Canadian citizen, you get full health care coverage if you live in Canada, you get fully subsidized post-secondary education and your offspring get Canadian citizenship.

I guess the thought is, with Canada providing all of those benefits, maybe the hurdle for Canadian citizenship should be a little higher?

I guess my thought is that Canadians need to decide what type of immigrant they want. One that views Canada as their new home or just a residence of last resort?

[ktizo]

You also need to factor the benefits to Canada of improved trade relations, as well as the saving in bureaucracy that you get from having a liberal immigration policy, rather than merely focusing on the direct cost or benefit of a given individual. Gut instincts of strict fairness when trying to judge people who are taking out but haven't put in yet don't always apply, especially if the cost of enforcement is higher than the cost of being more laissez-faire. And people under 25-30 pretty much can't be judged at all on that basis, for fairly obvious reasons.

[bosch]

Wow you really have no clue... that really amazes me.

The difference is for instance the cost of airlifting those citizens out of war zones will by far dwarf any taxes they may pay back while working in the country for 1-2 years before going back to the other one once the war is over. That's also IF they work and don't go on social assistance programs.

Canada is now experiencing this issue with a lot of Chinese who come here to get a passport as well. To most people, citizenship is the one thing you go all in on. By not doing so it hurts most countries and costs them a lot of money.

I'm not going to reply to you again, it's people with beliefs like yours who damage society as a whole.

[dalke]

"To most people, citizenship is the one thing you go all in on."

I've not seen that. I know English people who became US citizens in part because they were moving back to the UK, and if they decided to move back to the US then it would be much easier as US citizens.

I know a South African who views his Irish ancestry mostly as a way to get a Irish passport, which makes it much easier to visit Europe.

I know an Australian whose didn't visit the US until an adult, but who is a US citizen because of her mother's citizenship. She's lived in the UK for the last 10+ years.

I know a Romanian who got Swedish citizenship because it was easier to stay in Sweden that way. He didn't want to be forced to move back to Romania. He's then got US citizenship a few years later. (He actually got Swedish citizenship while waiting for the US paperwork to go through.)

Yes, my father got US citizenship as a teenager, and doesn't consider himself Canadian. So I know there are many who "go all in." But to say that most do that goes against my observations.

[ktizo]

Canada has a lot of economic emigrants living in the middle east, mostly working for the oil fields. They follow the same pattern of moving to and from the middle east as the people you have a problem with, only they were born in Canada.

And I personally see no problem with stuff like dual-nationality, economic migration, or hedging bets in a dangerous world. For one thing, it encourages trade, and for another, many people do not feel that they owe allegiance to one particular area of land when compared to another.

Also, Canada is built on and encourages immigration. These people have not tried to smuggle themselves in, rather they were encouraged and invited. It is you that really has no clue on this and your suspicion of migrants and denigration of their general motivations does a lot more to damage society than taking the view that it is better to be a bit more relaxed about the desire of many people to wander.

[edit] It also reminds me of the story I read of this guy who was born in South Africa and moved to Canada when he was 17 to avoid getting drafted, without family support and with little money, only stays a few years and also goes to college there, then leaves to go to the US as soon as he can get a scholarship. He is called Elon Musk, you may have heard of him.

[ta12121]

If he had stayed in the US he would have been considered an international student, and thus ineligible for local tuition. If you had your way, the same would be true in Canada. Now what does OP do?

[ktizo]

Yes, how dare he go to school in the US while his mother was working there. Absolutely despicable. I mean, it is one thing for foreigners to try and steal all those cushy nursing jobs, but to have the gall to bring their kids along and above all expect that some of their tax contributions should go towards teaching them to read and stuff, well, obviously the world has gone communist.

And then to go back to Canada and go to university there after sucking the US dry of the words and numbers he stole with his brain while at school. Well that just beggars belief. That is exporting the intellectual property of the US school system to a foreign power, partly made of people who speak French. French! The language of terror.

There are those who will stand by you, in this, your bravest moment, although they may want to bring a stepladder and a drysuit to do so, as you do appear to be waist deep in your own shit.

[edit] Just read the edit, and I am relieved to hear that you are making a strong stand against the pernicious stereotype of Canadians being fairly reasonable people on the whole.

[tatsuke95]

>"Yes, how dare he go to school in the US while his mother was working there."

Pull out as many straw-men as you want, big guy. I said nothing of the sort. Great tirade though.

>"And then to go back to Canada and go to university there"

I'm going to assume that you're not Canadian, since you seem to have no idea how this works. I don't care that he came back to this country to go to University. It's something we actively promote here. In fact, I worked part-time during my undergrad for an international students club, where part of the mandate was to help foreign students integrate into Canadian life. It wasn't as serious as it sounds, my job was mostly going to Spitfires games.

I do care that he came back here to take advantage of tax-dollar subsidized tuition. Huge subsidies. Some might even say controversial subsidies, that I support. You know, subsidies meant to go to tax-paying Canadians. It's a broken system that allows that to happen, and I'll stand behind trying to close loop holes that allow people to take advantage of it.

>"There are those who will stand by you, in this, your bravest moment, although they may want to bring a stepladder and a drysuit to do so, as you do appear to be waist deep in your own shit."

There's a certain irony to being lectured about open borders and minds by an American. If you're really upset about this nonsense, there are probably some local organizations and lobby groups where you can focus your rage. Rather than, you know, at some guy on the internet who doesn't remotely support things you accuse him of.

[ktizo]

I am not an American, although Canadians are, last time I checked. And anyone can lecture on open borders and minds irrespective of nationality, that sort of goes along with the concepts.

[tatsuke95]

>"I am not an American, although Canadians are, last time I checked."

I don't understand this...

>"And anyone can lecture on open borders and minds irrespective of nationality"

Absolutely. But if you're an American, your yelling at me on the internet about immigration is the equivalent of a Facebook "like" campaign to stop hunger in Africa. Plenty of work to do in your own back yard. I assume, with your passion and all, you're all over it.

[ktizo]

I don't understand this...

Well it is lucky I came prepared then. Here, I brought this map along. Have a look, this bit is a continent called "America". The bit at the bottom is what was first referred to as America by colonists from Europe, although the name was eventually used for the whole connected landmass, and the bit at the top is generally referred to as "North America", in which we have Mexico, the USA and Canada. But everyone in the continent are Americans, as they are all from America.

But if you're an American,

No, I am not an American. Which is why I said I am not an American. I can understand your confusion however, as earlier I think I may have slipped into a trance and started channeling the soul of Henry Kissinger. Sorry about that, it happens sometimes.

[tatsuke95]

>"But everyone in the continent are Americans, as they are all from America."

You're just itching to have a ridiculous argument, aren't you? Take your pseudo-intellectual nerd-rage elsewhere.

There are genuine problems with the immigration rules in the US. Some are described in this very thread. The author's case is marginal.

[bosch]

Your comment doesn't add any value to the discussion, nor is it a very good attempt at humour. What the parent is trying to say is that the OP is coming back to take advantage of a tax payer funded institution even though he doesn't plan on working in the country. If you disagree with his views perhaps you should work on rephrasing your comment.