[breadwinner]

Robotics has catapulted Beijing into a dominant position in many industries, especially ones involving renewable energy. Meanwhile in the US we are shutting down renewable energy projects (presumably to please middle-east benefactors), and Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick wants to bring jobs to the US that involve putting screws into phones.

[seanmcdirmid]

> Robotics has catapulted Beijing into a dominant position in many industries

It is really weird that this could have been Japan in the 90s, but the rise of cheap labor in China put a stop to Japan's dominance and they somehow didn't get back into it when Chinese labor became more expensive.

Maybe its just bad luck that the tech in the 90s wasn't compelling enough while it is in the 2020s. But Japan was going through the same demographic shift in the 90s that China is going through today, they began to act but the world decided to do things in China instead...and then...its not really clear to me why Japan is not investing as aggressively now (unless they are broke, or the capability to do such investments is gone?).

[a_vanderbilt]

The US congress is partially to blame. They saw Japan's rising influence in the digital/industrial space and threatened them with sanctions. See https://news.cgtn.com/news/2019-07-11/Lessons-from-U-S-Japan... for Chinese state media's interpretation.

[billy99k]

Beijing has factories for things like solar panels, but is still creating coal plants at a rate higher than most other countries.

Many in the US don't have the stomach to achieve what is required (which what's happening in China right now):

1. Slave labor 2. No labor unions 3. Working many more hours for less pay (many employees sleep where they work) 4. Not caring about intellectual property, including your own work that might get sucked up into AI models 5. No workplace regulations

This doesn't even include the fact that China has a massive surveillance network keeping everything in order.

We have 1/100 of this in the US and people already act like they are persecuted prisoners.

[tock]

Funny enough Europe uses the same excuses against America. That the reason America is far ahead of them is because of slave labour, no universal healthcare, etc

> Not caring about intellectual property, including your own work that might get sucked up into AI models

But this is particularly funny. Which American AI company has respected anyones IP when it comes to AI? Aaron Swartz is rolling in his grave seeing OpenAI.

[ggm]

China does not use slave labour in most of the industries which are deploying robots. Have a look at this list:

https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/china-83...

yes companies like Samsung and Apple are listed. No, it's not the predominant industry sector.

I don't want to descend into whataboutery, but it's entirely legal to use prisoners for slave labour in the US, and is routinely discussed in US legal reddit and the like: It's normalised in the states which depend on this kind of labour to get some things like road construction/maintenance done. Historically it was field work as well. I am unsure if this continues.

You would not at this point say the VC funded AI push in the west had very much concern for IPR. This is why IPR holders are in court. And yes, courts do exist in China, even if you stand very little chance of a just outcome as a foreigner.

You're not wrong about the surveillance.

[billy99k]

"Prisoners for slave labour in the US, and is routinely discussed in US legal reddit and the like: It's normalised in the states which depend on this kind of labour to get some things like road construction/maintenance done. Historically it was field work as well. I am unsure if this continues."

While it is used in some US industries, it's not nearly as pervasive as it is in China. I also think it's a much different situation in the US. In the US, it might be someone in prison for life getting a lower wage to pick up garbage on the road (as opposed to being locked in a cage all day).

In China, it's the way of life for many people in many provinces. The article you linked to is a good example of this.

I wasn't just talking about slave labor, though. It's regular labor with no regulations and long hours, which leads to children working and other horrific conditions.

It's pretty easy to get ahead, when you don't have to follow the same rules as the countries you are competing against. The irony also isn't lost on me that Republicans have wanted to get rid of regulations for years and many in the tech industry support China without hesitation.

"even if you stand very little chance of a just outcome as a foreigner."

This was my point.

[conception]

You don’t need to guess - https://www.epi.org/publication/rooted-racism-prison-labor/

[bigyabai]

> it's not nearly as pervasive as it is in China.

Do you have an empirical source that can back this up, or is this just guesswork?