[outcoldman]

> No smartwatch on the market since the original Pebble watches offers this combination of features…until today!

Is that a lie? What about Garmin Watches?

Sure Google/Samsung/Apple Watches are not "Long battery life", because they are not "Always on e-paper screen", but I feel like Garmin Watches are.

Obviously some Garmin Watches are pretty expensive, like Fenix (I have not used it since I switched to Apple Watch), but there are ~200USD watches as well https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/741137/ with 2 weeks battery life, custom apps, screens, and even GPS.

[spiffytech]

My Garmin (Forerunner 255 Music) feels like it's designed by a committee that uses their own product only while working jira tickets, and has never used it in anger.

On paper, it should feel like my old Pebble did. In reality it's clumsy and poorly thought-out. I look for ways to use it less, not more. I can't wait to replace it when the Pebble ships.

[lawn]

I've been using various Garmin watches for ages and I agree. The hardware is great, but the software is honestly very lackluster.

It's laggy, clumsy, difficult to make apps for, and just not very smart. Especially for someone like me who doesn't even use it for sports.

[tombert]

I guess I don't use my Garmin Instinct Crossover to its full extent, but I have found it pretty ok for the stuff I did do with it, and I like that it looks like a regular watch instead of a smartwatch.

[myk9001]

I'd love a watch that lasts a month on a single charge and stays readable under bright sunlight.

So I checked out Garmin Instinct Crossover.

It ticks all the boxes and probably has many more great features I'm not even aware of. But honestly, I'm after a watch not a wrist-mounted blunt weapon.

[tombert]

it's about the same size as the Casio G-Shock I used to have, so it's about perfect for me.

[Gigachad]

The pebble wasn’t an epaper display either. It was just a dull low power lcd.

[consp]

Transflective memory cell lcd's are amazing technology for the price they cost and the power they use. You trade some viberance for that but I'd call that acceptable tradeoff for always on.

The "epaper" branding is Sharp's idea. And "epaper" has been used for all kinds of things which are not the technology eInk has developed and popularized.

[Avamander]

But e-paper _is_ LCD, e-ink isn't.

[01HNNWZ0MV43FF]

No? Wikipedia says E-ink is a specific brand of e-paper, and e-paper isn't LCD. Right?

[Avamander]

Yes. E-paper is a specific name/brand used for transreflective LCDs. If I remember correctly, Sharp started calling it so. E-ink and e-paper can be called electronic paper, but e-paper isn't usually e-ink and e-paper usually is LCD.

So, Pebble Time's LCD is indeed e-paper, but is not e-ink.

[Gigachad]

E-Ink is a specific company’s name which can’t be used to describe the same display technology when used by any other company.

Today e paper is widely understood to mean the display technology which companies like e ink and waveshare use for displays which don’t need power to retain an image.

You’re right that historically it’s been confusing. Historically e ink was the only company making these displays since it was all patented so using their brand name as the technology name worked better back then than it does today.

[apparent]

Most Garmins don't get even one week of battery life with AOD. Sure, there's the solar charging ones that do, but those are enormous watches and they cost 4x what the Pebble costs.

[Rohansi]

You don't get 2 weeks battery life with GPS. That drops it down to less than a day.

[outcoldman]

Pebble does not have GPS at all. You don't have to use GPS on the watch, if you don't need to. You have an option to choose to use it, if you want to. Garmin watches ~2 weeks just as a smart watch, 8-50 hours with GPS on. But you will not have it on, unless you need it for a specific workout.

[useless_foghorn]

Garmin's Enduro 3 claims 13.3 days[1] of continuous GPS tracking with solar recharge and is tested to have 5 continuous days without[2].

[1] https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/GUID-7AD1A592-9044-4... [2] https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/camping-and-hiking/gp...

[bigfatkitten]

I get about two weeks from my Garmin Instinct, using GPS sporadically as needed.

[bananaboy]

What made you switch to an Apple Watch? I’ve been tossing up between a Garmin Forerunner 955 or an Apple Watch (I have an iPhone SE 2)

[outcoldman]

I have been using Apple Watch since series 0. I believe I switched from Garmin fenix 3. I feel like at that time Fenix had a lot of issues, I remember there were some about the maps, maybe they did not even had them at that time. And I was really into hiking. So thought that Apple Watch could be a better watch. Workouts were nice, listening music from the watch was a good addition.

I have not tried new fenix watches. And I would assume they are the same good as Apple Watches as well. But I do like my Apple Watch Ultra (2 or 3, whatever was released this year)

[mcny]

My conspiracy theory is there is something inherently rotten at Apple and it is simply not possible to build a smartwatch that never mind can match the feature set of the apple watch but also the levels of battery efficiency on the iPhone paired with a smartwatch different than the Apple Watch. I don't know this for a fact but I am sure multiple cheap ish Chinese watch vendors would not choose to intentionally drain the iPhone battery if they could avoid it.

[e_y_]

It's not just a theory. It's well documented that Apple has a bunch of APIs and protocols (like AirPods proprietary low latency wireless instead of Bluetooth, NFC was not allowed until years after Apple Pay) that are not available to 3rd party developers. They will sometimes open things up after they've given their own products years of head start because apparently owning most of the ecosystem and having undying brand loyalty from their users isn't enough.

Actually for many years even to build regular Bluetooth devices that did anything besides audio, you needed to add a special chip (Made for iPhone chip) to your hardware to verify that it was an authorized Apple Accessory. Pebble had one, but any 3rd party apps that wanted to send data to the watch (like Uber app, sports apps, random indie apps) had to get allow listed to communicate with accessory devices like Pebble.

[STKFLT]

Pretty much spot on https://ericmigi.com/blog/apple-restricts-pebble-from-being-...

[vampirical]

I think there’s a simpler explanation. Apple’s always uses a type of product metric that most companies don’t use. Those competitor products don’t care about phone battery drain, so they aren’t even trying to do anything about it.

[bigglywiggler]

I mean, it's Apple's whole strategy to create an ecosystem of devices that all work really well with each other. Having had some insight about how chinese manufacturing operates on the low end it's much simpler than that, they just don't really care about things like not draining battery life. Their products are built to a price point and they are aware of that. If it could be built to the same price point without heavily draining battery life then it would be.

[crossroadsguy]

Lack of GPS essentially killed the resurrected Pebble for me.

If I am buying a smart/tracking watch today, I want these things from it:

- Great battery life

- HRM (with decent accuracy; doesn't have to pass those "accuracy tests" though)

- GPS (with extremely good accuracy and yes, it has to pass those accuracy tests for GPS. And no, if I turn it ON and use it and the battery dies quickly, I won't hold it against you - that's supposed to happen)

- Do not track me - do not send any data to anywhere unless I specifically want it

- Do not need a phone to be connected to function - let me export data later if I choose to (hell, if this is the only way - I don't mind - BT not being used always isn't so bad - saves a bit of battery; if you need me to do this via a USB type C cable later, I don't mind that either)

That's all!

-----

If you don't have these features, I don't really mind:

- Show me the incoming call on the screen. - Give me a way to reject or silence it. If I want to answer that call, then I'll reach out to my phone anyway.

- Maybe show the time and day if I tap it or I am fine if it's always shown

- Preferably don't show me notifications from apps in general and if you do - give a very granular way to disable specific apps (this might already be possible)

- Please sell a non-touchscreen option (but I can live with one)

- Do not try to be the smartphone or replicate it somehow and end up becoming a Frankenstein in both size and spirit

- Maybe keep it lightweight?

PS. And, for the love of god, do not ever try to hardcode special chargers/cables like Philips does for their trimmers. Bas----ds sell different cables and different chargers for two trimmer models released in the same year very close to each other and in close price ranges fulfilling similar functions.

[delusional]

> Lack of GPS essentially killed the resurrected Pebble for me. > GPS > Do not need a phone to be connected to function

I don't really think you're in the target demographic for a pebble at all. It sounds like you want a standalone device that's essentially a smartphone on your wrist. I know you say you don't want it to be a smartphone, but if you want battery-life, a GPS, and phone independence, that's the product you're going to get.

Pebble is (and was) more of a smartphone companion, it has basically no smart functionality on its own.

[crossroadsguy]

I suspect you might not be aware that certain things can be "turned off" on a smartwatch or a computing device, mobile or otherwise. But if you knew, then I do not know why you still made this comment.

[koiueo]

I can't find the quote in the original post, so I don't know the context of that statement.

But generally, Garmins don't allow developing and installing 3rd-party apps on their watches

[outcoldman]

Sorry, I guess I was just reading about them, and went to the original blog post published on 2025-03-18 https://ericmigi.com/blog/introducing-two-new-pebbleos-watch...

I was able to develop apps for Garmin Fenix 3, which was released in 2015 https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/160512/#specs it already supported building apps for the watch. They also had a funny name for the language they built, something like "Gorilla language" or something similar.

EDIT: found it, they call it Monkey-C https://developer.garmin.com/connect-iq/monkey-c/

[koiueo]

Hah, I didn't know that. And I specifically looked for my pebble replacement, and contemplated over Garmin.

I guess their marketing dept hasn't been doing their work so well.

Thanks for sharing this

[gbil]

Isn’t garmin connect IQ exactly that ?

Edit: damn autocorrect

[koiueo]

Yep, you're right. I didn't know about that