[ck2]

leaving a toxic mess is a repeated part of Musk's plan with each business

it's always privatize the profits, socialize the costs

he's doing the same thing with Starlink which is going to vaporize many thousands of toxic satellites out of LEO into the atmosphere

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2025-space-orbit-satellit...

imagine what he's going to do on the Moon or Mars

[jvanderbot]

That is a very deceptive video/article (at least the first half above the paywall). It is true that a few of these sats will have to come down each day, but the video is of a booster failure/explosion, not a normal planned obsolescence sat re-entry.

And re-entry is part of the cleanup plan. All satellites responsibly launched need a plan to deal with possible orbital waste. By decommissioning in this way, we're reducing overall impact of the constellation.

Given the immense possible good worldwide internet can provide, and the virtuous cycle it creates for the US launch industry, it's really hard to take these claims seriously.

[ramon156]

> the immense possible good worldwide internet

It's hard to take your argument seriously if you think that's more important than preserving the environment

[jvanderbot]

It is impossible to make any improvement without some impact. We're way, way past any real problems when discussing a few 100kg of metal falling into the upper atmosphere every day.

[JumpCrisscross]

> hard to take your argument seriously if you think that's more important than preserving the environment

Okay, go convince a few billion Indians and Chinese they should wait to industrialize because the environment can’t take it.

[jvanderbot]

What does this have to do with anything ITT?

[JumpCrisscross]

> What does this have to do with anything ITT?

Growth versus preservation. India is trashing its air quality burning coal near its cities. Yet that power is lifting millions out of poverty and into the world's second-largest middle class.

Everyone would prefer clean air ceteris paribus. But for a lot of those people, economic security is "more important than preserving the environment."

[boudin]

I believe that an atmosphere compatible with human life is a bit more useful than internet by satelite. The fact that the impact of re-entry of satelites is absolute insane. Any good engineering company would study the whole impact of scaling up before doing so. The fact that spacex didn't do that is really worrying and regulation should come to stop what they are doing asap until the impact is better understood. Some more serious engineers at Japan aerospace are studying wooden satelite which is a quite approach to the problem.

[jvanderbot]

I am not aware of threats to the atmosphere from the entry at a 100kg/day scale. And nobody is. At this point risks are hypothetical to the ozone or other layers.

[fumblertzu]

if the aersols do cause any problems we're done for quite a while as they do not seem to come down. As I understand it the amount of aerosol will be quite significant in this layer of athmosphere. https://csl.noaa.gov/news/2025/427_0428.html

[sleepybrett]

I'm aware of the threats to the atmosphere from repeated and frequent rocket launches.

[JumpCrisscross]

> I'm aware of the threats to the atmosphere from repeated and frequent rocket launches

Educate us on how methalox rockets are a significant environmental concern?

[youngtaff]

> And re-entry is part of the cleanup plan

Polluting the upper atmosphere with copper, aluminium and other compounds with unknown consequences is hardly a cleanup plan

[ftchd]

if you combine all the fallen starlink satellites and the debris/waste they produce in a year, it comes down to about less than 0.1% of what the earth receives from space in the same year

[BriggyDwiggs42]

Is that true? I recall seeing a 16% or so number for the increase in mass burning up in the atmosphere.

Edit: I can’t find a source for any number for the increase. If you know could you share one?

Ah nevermind this seems solid https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02731...

[jvanderbot]

100 tons/day from NASA https://www.nasa.gov/solar-system/asteroids/asteroid-fast-fa...

[BriggyDwiggs42]

Okay, that makes sense. The reading I did indicated that the composition of the man-made mass is very different, and could greatly elevate the amount of certain elements released in the upper atmosphere, like aluminum. Is this not cause for concern?

[peterfirefly]

Meteorites are a thing, you know.

[add-sub-mul-div]

The worst thing about space exploration is that it's not fun and optimistic like it was before this specific 2020s phase of capitalism, the best thing is that this crop of billionaires will all be dead before the real cool future stuff could happen anyway.

[measurablefunc]

They're planning to live forever. All of them are investing in longevity research & some of them are young enough to live to see a few breakthroughs that might meaningfully extend their lifespan.

[_ea1k]

It actually is fun and optimistic.

[wood_spirit]

Dictators discuss life-extending organ transplants https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly1w9z72r6o.amp

[Larrikin]

Xi and Putin were caught on a hot mic talking about swapping out their organs with fresh ones. I assume from their local political enemies.

[indigoabstract]

To be honest, what can you talk about when you're a big shot dictator and your conversation partner is an even bigger dictator than you are?

The weather? Or the latest invasion that you've launched? That's probably boring, so it's a tricky situation.

[ceejayoz]

This is getting downvoted, probably because it sounds like a loony conspiracy theory... but it isn't. https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/hot-mic-picks...

[throwawaygmbno]

Why assume it's people who can't Google down voting and not Russian and Chinese plants. There's all kinds of topics on here that trigger a down voting campaign that works pretty well on non top comments.

[JumpCrisscross]

> not Russian and Chinese plants

“Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email [e-mail] and we'll look at the data.”

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[JumpCrisscross]

> This is getting downvoted

“Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.”

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[ceejayoz]

There's a significant difference between "waaah meanies downvoting" and "no really folks, this is an actual thing".