[jacquesm]

So, how is it working out for you so far? I find it hard to believe that otherwise intelligent beings can both make claims like this and at the same time observe reality. The USA has in all of its history since the civil war not been this divided. And it is falling off a cliff as we speak.

[WillPostForFood]

This is is deeply ignorant historically. The US has cycled through extreme division over and over. There was 100x more civil unrest over Vietnam, civil rights, reconstruction, early labor wars. We've had 4 presidents assassinated, one shot, but survived. There were 2,500 domestic bombings in the 1970s. In 1972 there were 31 plane hijackings - 1 every 12 days.

There is a lot of hot talk, a lot of insular bubbles working themselves into online frenzies, but it is, objectively, a boring, passive time out on the street. No, there is no cliff.

[jacquesm]

Of course man, everything is 'just fine'.

Outside of the USA: talk of invading Canada, Greenland, indiscriminate execution of people on the high seas, a tariff war that seems to be a series of own goals, destabilization of NATO, the burning of 75 years of goodwill.

Inside the USA: military in the cities, half the country is being depicted as 'the enemy' by those in power, an embarrassing cadre of incompetents are in powerful positions and are wrecking the departments they are nominally in charge of, North Korea style adulation of an idiot leader, attacks on judges and members of congress are on the order of the day, teams of masked man snatch people (men, women, children) off the streets and out of their beds, endless violations of the law by the authorities, naked power grabs and abuse of pardons, attacks on the free press, destruction of the machinery of the state are the order of the day.

Those things you mention were bad, but they were still within the framework of the normal functioning of a state, it never looked as though there was a real chance of the USA fracturing or turning on itself no matter how bad they were. But this time it looks very much different. If you can't see that then that's fine with me but 'historical ignorance' is an easy card to play if you have already decided that what's happening right now in the USA is business as usual, and to me it does not look like 'business as usual' at all. This is unprecedented, and it is getting worse every day.

What I think is happening is that the 'flooding the zone' strategy is working so well that people are simply no longer able to keep up with all of the assaults and they hunker down, hoping that it will pass them by. That's a coping mechanism.

[WillPostForFood]

Again you are speaking from ignorance, and the inability to differentiate online bubble talk, shit talking by politicians, and reality. The Candian PM was sitting in the White House laughing with the president two days ago, are you seriously saying there is some sort of invasion threat? I don't like that twitter shit talking has bled into people's actual mouths, but I am capable of understanding that it is just talk.

George HW Bush deployed national guard to cities to deal with unrest, Lyndon Johnson deployed the national guard multiple times to deal with unrest, Eisenhower didn't just deploy the National Guard, he sent in the 101st Airborne - the real army. The current deployments are small and peaceful in comparison.

[jacquesm]

> Again you are speaking from ignorance, and the inability to differentiate online bubble talk, shit talking by politicians, and reality. The Candian PM was sitting in the White House laughing with the president two days ago, are you seriously saying there is some sort of invasion threat? I don't like that twitter shit talking has bled into people's actual mouths, but I am capable of understanding that it is just talk.

The rest of the world - so outside of your bubble - hears that talk and is getting seriously worries. Not just about the leadership of the USA, but about the USA as a whole.

> George HW Bush deployed national guard to cities to deal with unrest,

But not on a pretext, though, arguably, he did start a major war on a pretext, so there's that.

> Lyndon Johnson deployed the national guard multiple times to deal with unrest, Eisenhower didn't just deploy the National Guard, he sent in the 101st Airborne - the real army. The current deployments are small and peaceful in comparison.

But they are on a pretext and that is what should worry you. The commander-in-chief has gone nuts to the point that he is inventing reasons to send the military into cities that do not want them.

But if you want to choose to ignore all that and pretend that everything is just a-ok, be my guest. We'll see how your comment ages.

[mlrtime]

>The rest of the world - so outside of your bubble - hears that talk and is getting seriously worries. Not just about the leadership of the USA, but about the USA as a whole.

Propaganda, Anxiety, none of it is real. Parent is right, its made up outrage and the US and world is better now than ever.

The only thing that is extreme is the hate spewed by both sides.

[mallowdram]

The anocracy variable is at the highest level since the first Civil War. Technically the system is blinking red, and the lack of street fighting is not an indication of Civil War, it's law-abiding discourse that separates polities from power access that determines Civil War.

[nervousvarun]

Is that actually true? The U.S. was pretty damn divided in the late 60s.

Widescale race riots, Vietnam war protests, a President and Presidential candidate assassinated etc. That said a few cms or so difference and that bullet takes out Trump.

Certainly divided right now just genuinely not sure if it's quite at that level or not.

[jacquesm]

> That said a few cms or so difference and that bullet takes out Trump.

That could have been reversed. Kennedy could have lived and Trump could have been dead, either way, I was four at the time, my most recent memory from that era is the moon landing. But the depiction of half the nation as the enemy and the active tour of revenge that is happening right now is unprecedented, not even the McCarthy era - or at least, what I know of it - came close.