[freedomben]

Yep, precisely. It really blows my mind to see so many people who normally support a free market suddenly forget (or ignore) what effect a tariff has on a market. Somehow it's now become a hammer and every problem is a nail.

I get that there are some real (or perceived) issues that are trying to be solved with these tariffs, but that doesn't magically make the realities of what tariffs do to a market go away. "Just do something" is a good way to get a "solution" that makes you worse off.

[epistasis]

Especially people that are usually anti-tax!

Tariffs are the worse sort of tax, massive amounts of deadweight loss, and a burden specifically on the pooorest. Perhaps that second part is why they are so popular.

[adventured]

China has a hyper protected domestic market. There is no other major economy in the world as shielded from foreign competition as China.

How does that fact correlate to China's EV segment booming?

[lossolo]

> China has a hyper protected domestic market

When I was in China, I saw Teslas everywhere and iPhones too. It seems there are products that can still compete in China against strong domestic brands. The country hasn't really been hyper protected for a few years now. I mean, majority of the products from around the world are basically produced there so they are not even looking at tarrifs, besides that many industries no longer require joint ventures, much of Africa has tariff free access etc.

[orwin]

> China has a hyper protected domestic market

For B2B maybe (i don't know about "hyper", and services and software are outside of this protection for sure). For consumers/customers, China is freer than the US.

[ToucanLoucan]

How are U.S. automakers "ruthlessly competing" in the global market otherwise? Can you name a single American car that competes well overseas? I know the F-150 did at one time but I don't know if that's even true anymore given that what was once Ford's workhorse has been turned into a luxury SUV for suburbanites cosplaying as blue collar workers occasionally.

Most American OEMs are now all but entirely in the SUV/pickup truck markets precisely because the Asian makes already kick the shit out of them in every other category. Several prominent brands have nothing on sale but SUVs right now! And they're STILL going broke.

[goalieca]

Many arguing in favor of tarrifs note that it is not a free market. China is definitely playing to dominate with government assistance deep in the supply chain on up.

[ricardobeat]

There has been plenty of evidence that total government assistance to automakers has been at the same level in the USA, including the huge bailouts.

[fragmede]

Not remotely. It's fair to point out that it exists, especially given the bailout, but China's sponsorship of their local manufacturing is a whole other level. We're talking direct subsidies and grants to OEMs, consumers getting trade in subsidies, huge tax rebates and exemptions, financing, infrastructure support, and long term industrial planning. Similar things exist in the US, but the biggest thing though is that it's stable and not capricious, unlike the current US administration. China's support is enormous, like $230 billion over 15 years, and it's ongoing, not some random one-offs, like cash for clunkers.

[goalieca]

The scale is not even close to comparable.