[tptacek]

These were not simple detentions; this was ICE taking every door in a 5 story apartment complex at 3:00AM, and detaining every single resident for over 4 hours. Nothing at all like the types of detention Justice Kavanaugh refers to when he talks about the minor inconvenience of a police stop-and-investigate detention. It is not the case that your local police can do this in response to a traffic infraction.

[A4ET8a8uTh0_v2]

This is, by far, the only rational argument put forth so far, but even here I feel obligated to nitpick. What exactly is 'simple detention'? Are they separated in terms of severity or is it just one giant class of detention that is subject to an opinion of the officers on the ground? One would think that a massive crackdown like this would be at least 4h of one's life.

[zaphar]

I do not think ICE is conducting themselves well here. The point of my post above however is that part of the reason ICE is acting like this is because ICE and Chicago have positioned themselves as antagonists and the results are reasonably predictable here. The cause is not poverty it's bad politics.

[A4ET8a8uTh0_v2]

Eh, the problem has multiple layers:

1. The linked story has CBP and not ICE 2. The citizens in question are children of illegal immigrants 3. Optics and narratives are more important that facts

Bottom line is, from get go, this conversation is flawed, but we now act as if what OP posted is some sort of gospel. And he barely understands basic civics.

[1]https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/07/difference-betwe...

[tptacek]

I can't imagine how it would matter. There's basically nothing more sacred in US law than the front door of one's home. There isn't a more intrusive ordinary investigative action any government body can take.

From the photos: they trashed the apartments, too. Again, not that it much matters.

[A4ET8a8uTh0_v2]

Hm. Surely, you are not suggesting that the length of delay does not matter? If that was the case, one could be detained indefinitely.

Lets then compare it to other law enforcement actions and see where it differs. If we do that, maybe we can learn something new.

Based on what I do know, this law enforcement action was not different from other similar crackdowns. If true, this would suggest that the sacrosanct status does not exist or exists in name only. I would be curious to learn, which you think is true.

[tptacek]

The length of detention is of minor importance compared to breaking down doors and pulling people out of their homes indiscriminately (across an entire 5-story apartment building) at 3AM. This is extremely different from other crackdowns. There isn't a way you can rhetorically salvage it; you will keep running aground of the fact that they rousted and detained an entire building at 3AM.

[A4ET8a8uTh0_v2]

It is hardly rhetorical. If warrant was issued, would you accept it or not? Either way, it would be interesting to know.

[tptacek]

I'm really not interested in hair-splitting this, sorry. A claim was made upthread about the ordinariness of what happened with this raid; that claim was luridly false. I'm happy to leave it there.