[measurablefunc]

I understand computers, software, & the theory of computation well enough to know that there is no algorithm or even a theoretical algorithmic construction that can be considered thought. Unless you are willing to concede that thinking is nothing more than any number of models equivalent to a Turing machine, e.g. lambda calculus, Post systems, context aware grammars, carefully laid out dominoes, permutations of bit strings, etc. then you must admit that computers are not thinking. If you believe computers are thinking then you must also admit dominoes are thinking when falling in a cascading chain.

[Nevermark]

You are confusing primitives with things built with those primitives.

Complex phenomena emerge from interactions of things that don’t exhibit that phenomena all the time.

Atoms can’t think. In no sense can you find any thinking in an atom.

They are no different from dominos in that respect.

You can pile atoms to the moon without seeing any thinking.

Yet they can still be arranged so they do think.

[chpatrick]

Sure, sufficiently advanced dominoes.

https://xkcd.com/505/

We're already at the point where LLMs can beat the Turing test. If we define thinking as something only humans can do, then we can't decide if anyone is thinking at all just by talking to them through text, because we can't tell if they're human any more.

[measurablefunc]

Animals can also think. It's not restricted to one specific type of primate physiology. But it seems like you think you're nothing more than falling cascades of dominoes in which case we don't really have much to discuss. Your metaphysical assumptions are fundamentally at odds with what I consider a reasonable stance on computation & reality.

[Nevermark]

> Animals can also think

What are you saying?

Are you saying you have a clear definition for thinking, and you can demonstrate that animals pass that definituon?

Then share the definition.

Or are you simply defining thinking as a common property of humans and animals, using animals and human behavior as exemplars?

A useful definition for focusing inquiry. But it does not clarify or constrain what else might or might not be enabled to think.

Or are you defining thinking as an inherent property of animals and humans that other things cannot have because they are not animals or humans?

Fine, but that that’s an exercise in naming. Something we are all free to do however we want. It has no explanatory power.

[baq]

Hard to argue with religious beliefs.

[measurablefunc]

The void created by modernity must be filled somehow so it might as well be the great programmer in the great beyond. Just as childish as religions of pre-modernity but very useful if you're a technocrat building data centers & trying to pump the valuations of companies that can benefit from all that buildout w/ promises of forthcoming utopias approximating the palace of the great programmer in the great beyond. Just a few more nuclear power plants & a few more GPU clusters is all that's needed.

[Nevermark]

Ideally it is filled with curiosity and continued exploration.

Not manufactured stop gaps or generic cynicism.

There is no reason more GPUs can’t contribute to further understanding, as one of many tools that have already assisted with relevent questions and problems.

Opt out of serious inquiry, no excuse needed, if you wish. Reframing others efforts is not necessary to do that.

[measurablefunc]

I recommend taking your own advice on that one, specifically the part about reframing efforts of strangers.

[QuesnayJr]

I think you are misjudging which side of the religion/non-religion divide you are on.

[measurablefunc]

The people who think enough nuclear reactors & silicon chips w/ the right incantation of 0s & 1s will deliver them to an abundant utopia don't leave much room in their ideology for any doubt about the eschatological objective of their quest & mission in life. These people are definitely not on some kind of religious side of a religious vs non-religious divide.

Sure thing buddy, I'm the confused one in this entire millenarian frenzy.