[garbthetill]

regulation from the US side sounds open with the genius act, plus the current admin is pro crypto. Regulations from other govs dont matter as they will just "geo block" countries that dont allow it and users will just bounce into the service with a vpn or proxy at their own risk, other crypto like btc , xrp has been used to cross border trade for a decade now even in countries with outright bans, the entities using it just work around it e.g have an operation in a country were its allowed or in the case of weak enforcement just dont care

Im not fully knowledgeable about banks, but i always thought the reason why regulation was so hard was because no one could agree on a common ground obvs each country wants to keep their moat with their own currency, but with crypto anyone can opt in at their own risk

[thrown-0825-1]

Current US admin is pro grift, bribery, and embezzlement.

Crypto is a just a tool that enables that. They have no interest whatsoever in democratization, self-custodial finance, or frictionless payments across borders for anyone but themselves.

Direct p2p payments a "hard problem" because it directly contradicts what we consider to be one of the central pillars of national sovereignty, control over your national currency.

Crypto as a whole is in denial about this because there is no path forward without expecting nations to either give up one of their most effective levers of control, or expecting them to turn a blind eye to external actors eroding that control in real time.

[CaptainOfCoit]

> what we consider to be one of the central pillars of national sovereignty, control over your national currency.

Who exactly is "we" here? Because that's not true in a lot of (sovereign) countries in the world. Probably the most famous example being the Euro, and maybe the closest example to you is the United States Dollar which is an official currency in countries that have no control over the currency itself.

[disgruntledphd2]

> Who exactly is "we" here? Because that's not true in a lot of (sovereign) countries in the world.

The CEO of coinbase recently said on a podcast that in the future, he expects stablecoins to wipe out all but ten currencies in the world.

This is a ludicrous statement that's gonna get Coinbase banned from many of these countries, and end up being subject to much, much more regulation than they expect.

Like, just because the US is currently pro-crypto doesn't mean that the rest of the global regulators have changed.

[Karrot_Kream]

.... Why would Coinbase be banned for saying something like this, what? At most these countries will probably prevent their citizens from using cryptocurrency like the Chinese government's position. Though my guess is that some smaller countries with less sophisticated monetary regimes may actually be excited about escaping the petrodollar world economy.

[disgruntledphd2]

> Why would Coinbase be banned for saying something like this, what?

Control of the currency is one of the core governmental functions, I find it hard to imagine a world where governments are OK with this.

And more generally, if this is your plan, it's profoundly idiotic to say it in public before you've accomplished it, as you're giving your counterparties more time to adjust (which you probably don't want).

> Though my guess is that some smaller countries with less sophisticated monetary regimes may actually be excited about escaping the petrodollar world economy.

I find this unlikely, but we'll see I guess.

[CaptainOfCoit]

> Control of the currency is one of the core governmental functions, I find it hard to imagine a world where governments are OK with this.

Are you not aware about the countries that are seemingly OK with this already? There are countries that don't have their own national currency and instead rely on United States Dollar, so obviously what you say doesn't always apply.

> I find this unlikely, but we'll see I guess.

Why? They're already in a "hard to imagine world" (from your perspective) since they don't have control over their own currency, wouldn't it be "easier to imagine" that they move to a currency no one control?

[Karrot_Kream]

> Control of the currency is one of the core governmental functions, I find it hard to imagine a world where governments are OK with this.

Many governments do not perform this function. The Eurozone is a shared currency standard and it's not like most Eurozone countries have a domestic currency and keep a liquid market of EUR <-> Domestic Currency to transact in the Eurozone. Their credits and debts are denominated in EUR.

Then there's countries that use other countries as legal tender, like El Salvador. There's countries that peg their currencies to other currencies like Gulf States to the USD and the CFA Franc Zone which pegs to the EUR.

So... there's plenty of world governments that do not control their own currencies.

> And more generally, if this is your plan, it's profoundly idiotic to say it in public before you've accomplished it, as you're giving your counterparties more time to adjust (which you probably don't want).

If you're going to call someone's plan idiotic it's best to get your own facts in order first. I mean this is the internet so you can say whatever you want and get internet points but some of us like to think in terms of facts.

[thrown-0825-1]

Not in the mood to debate easily google-able concepts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetary_sovereignty

[garbthetill]

I agree on the current admin being pro grift and just extracting as much as they can, but crypto works because it overwhelms the system, if a million people rushed a military base at the same time no matter how great the defense is, the base will be breached.

I dont have financial/economic knowledge to argue my point to a full extent, but ive been under the assumption that p2p payments was only hard because various countries could not find a common ground, not only because of keeping control , but also getting laws changed/passed in most democratic nations is hard and might not be worth the scrutiny, entities in charge of their country banking system and regulations also find it difficult to bring radical ideas

There has been a handful of items that have bypassed all of this way before crypto and that is precious metals & gem stones like gold, silver, ruby, emerald etc you could be in the middle of africa and you will find someone who will easily buy your gold. Crypto is just like this and instead of mother nature dictating for us what material is rare , we as the consumers decide which crypto protocol, dapp, token ,blockchain etc to use and with competiton a better or improved system will always arise and trading gold hasnt eroded control for most nations, people still want hard cash for their day to day.

[thrown-0825-1]

I will gladly send you crypto for any gold you can get your hands on.

[lifty]

[flagged]

[thrown-0825-1]

Your question is unclear.

Denial about what national sovereignty means in regards to currency controls and what that means for crypto orgs who want to operate in the stable coin or off ramp space?

Plenty of examples of orgs either failing or entirely abandoning their crypto "principles" like privacy and decentralization just to get rubber stamped by various regulatory agencies.

[lifty]

Nobody is in denial about the politics and game theory of adoption.

It seems you are in denial about the rate of crypto rails adoption. Stable coins seem to be part of the US national strategy for creating some extra demand for US debt so this goes fully against your previous comment. Decentralized debt markets are growing. Wall Street is dipping its toes more and more in tokenization and more and more organizations are interested in that. That list goes on.

It’s frankly tiring to debate this on HN. The fact is, blockchains are just a technology so they are adopted in all sorts of of ways which sometimes align with decentralization ethos and sometimes not. Ethereum and Bitcoin seems to be getting more adoption, as bearer assets that are independent and have a predictable issuance rate, and in a world with so much debt they can only continue to gain more market share.

So I really don’t know where you’re coming from.

[thrown-0825-1]

Clinging to unfounded beliefs about a fundamentally flawed ideology is exhausting.

[lifty]

What is that fundamentally flawed ideology?