[Spunkie]

In general the Tahoe update has been awful for all my end users that decided to update.

It's not just electron apps that are the issue btw, just yesterday we ran into an issue with Zoom.

It was breaking prompts/popups and by extension the system settings, the Mac app store, iTouch, and a ton of other random stuff was broken in silent and inconsistent ways.

Also all my 8gb users are noticing significantly higher memory usage compared to their previous macOS versions.

[pants2]

Why do you install the Zoom app? Seems like only a way to collect data on you vs the web version that works just great.

[dewey]

The question is why the app is bad, not why users install it.

[eptcyka]

Web version doesn’t handle large amounts of participants in a single call, way back when I used zoom.

[workfromspace]

I used the web version last month for an inside town hall meeting with ~1k participants and it was as smooth as it could be.

[bartread]

Thanks.

It sounds like the issue has already been fixed in Electron, although it will obviously take a while for all app vendors to bump versions.

I'm guessing Zoom might be hitting the same overridden system call that Electron was, although I have no firm information that this is the case.

Regardless, I've just checked my settings to ensure this upgrade won't be installed automatically because I wasn't sure how MacOS behaves with major upgrades, and will probably wait 2 - 3 months before letting Tahoe onto my system to allow everyone else time to get their fixes and upgrades done.

[Razengan]

> It's not just electron apps that are the issue btw

Electron ""apps"" were are and will always be the issue.

Don't bundle a whole freakin web browser and ravish my battery and RAM just to show me a damn text box.

A text box that won't even have all the built-in OS features or accessibility.

Downvote this to hell but Electron is a crutch for lazy Frankensteins looking for lightning to revive a monster that should have stayed dead.

[m-schuetz]

Dev UX is important, and the dev UX of Electron is pretty much unmatched.

If you want people to not use Electron, you'll need to provide an alternative that makes it just as easy to develop sophisticated, platform-independent applications. Otherwise, no amount of complaining about Electron will ever stop devs from using Electron.

[ezst]

Dev UX is only good in that we regressed to the point that there's not much left but Web, and that's what the majority of devs know as a result. The Dev UX of the Web is pretty bad, though, compared to past and present alternatives, and I'm far from having as much fun putting together UXes for the Web as I was with older tech like Qt, Swing, JavaFX, etc (the tooling was better, more efficient, they had builders for rapid prototyping that were offering a more faithful representation of the design more quickly than figma ever will, etc).

[m-schuetz]

I've used Qt, Swing and JavaFX, and found all of them absolutely terrible. Qt might have at least led to some good results, but it's fairly bad to use and deploy. Especially if you want to use the latest Graphics APIs, which worked pretty badly back when I last used Qt in 2016. I much prefer Electron, or imgui for C++. I'll happily sacrifice some features so long as I dont have to use Qt.

[ezst]

> Qt might have at least led to some good results

You seem to focus on the outcome while what interests me is the programming model. Say what you want about object-oriented programming, the problem-space lends itself very well to it. In Qt/Swing/… components are just classes whose behaviour and appearance are determined by function overrides, taking as parameter event or graphics objects. Just like that, you cleanly solve everything that "webcomponents" stands for: interface contracts are determined by class constructors/parameters, customisation is just class inheritance with member override, look&feel customisation is plain calls into the graphics API primitives, layouting/responsive-design is taken care of at the just level of abstraction, and all of it takes place in the same language and ecosystem/stdlib (no HTML to CSS to JS references to keep in sync and mental overhead).

React reproduces some of this model, but with much more technical and mental complexity, bringing trade-offs of its own. I'm not calling this easier to work with, simpler, or easier to debug. It certainly gives more creative options, but only because the ecosystem is broader (and full of supply-chain risks).

[Razengan]

You sort of have a point, but users shouldn't have to pay the price for better UX for devs, the companies making operating systems should.

Even non-power users pay the cost, they just don't realize it yet.

But as long as users still need Apple/Microsoft/Google's platforms to be able to run Electron apps, those corps won't care, specially if it takes devs away from the toolchains controlled by them.

Maybe if someone can come up with a pure Electron OS that can run on any device, it might force Windows/Apple/Android to agree on a universal native UI API?

[encom]

I'm not a dev (by profession). I don't care about the you-ecks of developers. Electron creates objectively terrible software by every metric that matters for the end user.

>sophisticated

You confuse complexity for sophistication.

[m-schuetz]

Objectively wrong. Bad programmers create terrible software. Electron was used for some fantastic software like vscode.

[typpilol]

Do you even know how much a modern electron app with tree shaking actually uses?

Most of my electron apps fully packaged are less than 100mb.

[wiseowise]

Okay gramps, time to take the meds.

[Razengan]

Yeah like some cocaine just to sit through your slow unoptimized shit lol

Try learning more than 1 language for everything.

(not directed personally @ anyone, just a peeve at the many factors enabling the necessity of something like Electron)

[concinds]

I suggest that everyone here stop submitting Feedback Assistant/Radar reports. Let teenagers, college students, adults and old people buy a new Mac, experience the bugs and lack of polish and let it affect Apple's brand, consumer's preferences, and their market behavior. Apple is too big to care about anything other than market consequences. Apple is fully aware that no one likes the Radar system, that no one feels their reports count, they had an executive do a sort-of mea culpa years ago but nothing changed.

My AirPods keep going silent on my new Tahoe Mac and require a disconnect and reconnect. Will I report it? No. (Besides, if you report bugs like that, Apple collects a map of your entire filesystem, every path and filename). Apple shouldn't have fired their QA team. Let them deal with any brand damage, they've earned it. I mean, did Apple really not test their new OS with Slack, Zoom or VSCode? Really? Reckless.

[Razengan]

> I suggest that everyone here stop submitting Feedback Assistant/Radar reports.

We need an equivalent of the "Windows UX Taskforce” but for macOS/iOS (it was a website that pointed out and laughed at all the UI/UX flaws in Windows)

[nebula8804]

They have like ~15% market share. Thats really tiny after all these years. I bet those people are mostly people who have been burned by Windows. What do you expect them to go to? Linux?

[willtemperley]

I find the stats vary wildly. I'm seeing it's up to 31% in the US [1].

https://www.computerworld.com/article/1624976/statcounter-da...

[lwhi]

Linux actually works well .. maybe 2026 will be the year of [...]

[Yiin]

it already is for me at least, because steam proton is excellent and distros are polished enough (still lacking in some edge cases, but windows is lacking more in other aspects)

[illiac786]

>Apple is too big to care about anything other than market consequences.

I’d argue this applies to a very large proportion of companies out there, they don’t have to be huge to suffer from this affliction.

[Kwpolska]

Too many Apple users consider Apple to be holy and will blame app vendors for OS bugs.

[lowmagnet]

When said app authors use a private library that a Apple asked them to not use, is it really wrong to blame them?

[Kwpolska]

From a Windows end-user perspective, the entity to blame for apps breaking after a Windows upgrade is Microsoft, even if the app was doing something it should not have [0].

[0] Search for "return policy" on https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost... .

[willtemperley]

This was clearly a vendor bug though.

[encom]

Apple is a fashion brand, and Apple users buy it for that reason, not because of any technical merit.

[lowmagnet]

It made my menu bar transparent until you click an item in it, rendering it useless on my black background.

[illiac786]

Thank you, I suspected as much, I use a black background as well.

[h05sz487b]

Good that I went with 64 gigs for my last mac. But I'll wait for the first patch at least for this one.

[richrichardsson]

I honestly can't figure out why people upgrade to the latest x.0.0 release of macOS. Wait for the x.1.0 : by that time Apple have fixed most of their bugs and software vendors have had time to do their side too.

[blurrybird]

Because they value secure devices. Apple don’t backport _all_ security patches.

[rogerrogerr]

The bad ones they do, especially early on.

The ones they don’t back port are usually dumb stuff like “if an attacker has root and has you at gunpoint, a flaw in wallpaperd may allow them to change your desktop background”

[richrichardsson]

In my experience of you're on currentVersion - 1 the security is just as good.

All I was saying is it's (imo) madness to upgrade immediately to the latest .0 version of macOS.

The long key press for diacritics is completely broken on Tahoe : white text on a white background.

All Electron apps are a bit broken until the vendors update.

There's probably more problems.

[illiac786]

Depends when, before they hit the X.1.0, yes they do backport all security patches. I’d argue they actually do until .2.0, but that murkier.

[curtisblaine]

Because Apple nags you to do that via OS popups

[quitit]

I must have the very secret iOS and macOS versions which specifically require major updates be selected for installation otherwise it only continues to offer the minor updates for my current version.

[dheera]

The real problem is Apple being so stingy with RAM.

I have 192GB of RAM on my (non-Apple) desktop and 96GB of RAM on my (non-Apple) laptop. I have never had memory issues with Electron apps, 200 Chrome tabs open, or pretty much anything, really.

[willtemperley]

It's not a memory problem at all. It's the misuse of a private API that's at fault:

https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/02/macos_26_electron_slo...

[kimixa]

But if the "private API" was the only way of fixing an issue with rendering corner smoothing, was it "misuse"?

[willtemperley]

The developer who submitted the fix thinks so:

"I need to be clear about this, Electron's "_cornerMask" override was a dirty hack that was made in an effort to fix an ancient issue with corner smoothing."

https://github.com/electron/electron/issues/48311#issuecomme...

[raspasov]

Apple does have a 128GB laptop with M4 Max.

[encom]

It starts at 5000 USD. Five. Thousand. Dollars.

[raspasov]

It is the fastest laptop CPU in the world right now, by a decent stretch.

128GB PC laptops are not very cheap either, if you want a decent one, like a ThinkPad.

Here’s a 7000 USD ThinkPad P16 Gen 2 workstation:

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadp/th...

[encom]

>fastest laptop CPU in the world

Maybe, but it's 1) ARM 2) In a Mac. Those are some colossal caveats.

[raspasov]

What caveats specifically?

I understand the problems of measuring cross-platform performance but anecdotally even on things that it's not specifically optimized for, for example running a Java Virtual Machine with 10s of GBs of memory, it's really fast, efficient and competitive to most non-Mac/ARM setups.

[dheera]

Not 128GB, but 96GB of SODIMM is <$300 on Amazon. Don't buy it from Lenovo.

[dheera]

Yep. Add a usable SSD to that and it'll be 7K.

I have 8TB in my laptop (cost $500) and 28TB total in my desktop (cost ~$2K) and before you start on it, yes I do use that much space.

These are unheard-of numbers for a middle class Apple owner, but commonplace for a middle class non-Apple owner.

Looking at the Apple website their offerings start from 0.25 TB. What a joke. My phone has that much.