[brad0]

I've been reading through the book The Courage to be Disliked recently. I'm not a big fan of the writing style of the book, but some of the ideas in the book appear in this post too.

One of the concepts in the book is being comfortable with being disliked. If instead you're trying to avoid being disliked, you're effectively subject to other people's whims.

When you look at it from that perspective, that's a pretty stressful experience!

[ChrisLakin]

> I'm not a big fan of the writing style of the book

OP here. I address that in How I'd rewrite The Courage to be Disliked: https://chrislakin.blog/courage

[Etheryte]

I can't help but feel that these criticisms, like many others of the book, are mostly down to cultural misunderstanding. The writing style of the book is deeply Japanese and that's off-putting for many, myself included. But for some, it's to the point where the forest is missed for the trees. I've read a few translations of it and some do a better job at conveying the idea than others, but they all feel clunky without the cultural context.

A good example of what I mean is your first suggestion, choosing a less triggering explanation for teleology. The idea of trigger words as we understand them, and the need to shield people from them, is not a universal cultural phenomenon. The suggestion feels a bit like visiting a country where they drive on the left side of the road and suggesting they try and drive on the right instead. Maybe the suggestion is good! But maybe not, without cultural context, the suggestion reads mostly like just asking for things to be made more familiar to you.

[brad0]

Thanks for the link! I read through it and agree with most of your points, especially the parts about presence and separation of tasks.

I personally liked the intellectual aspect of it, though I also agree that the emotional component should be there as well.

[immibis]

IDK, in my experience not avoiding being disliked only results in a lot of people disliking me, but hasn't brought any gains, unless a rate limit on HN is a gain (they say I'm "too ideological", whatever that means)

[ranger_danger]

Since you brought it up, I will put in my 2 cents, and I will try to articulate it in a constructive way, not meant as an attack at all.

Fair warning, I'm American and I realize you are European, and there are obvious cultural differences that may be at play.

The main problem I have with you is the attitude. Very black-and-white thinking, as if you seemingly just know everything, about everything, which I don't think can be true for anybody really.

I think it makes you actually appear less intelligent, although it is obvious that you are intelligent, but it makes people think things like "pshh what does this guy know, acting like he wrote the book on this subject". But lower intelligence people are masters of black-and-white thinking, and see constructive feedback as criticism, unable to use it to improve themselves, which I don't think you want to be seen as.

Of course, there are people who criticize because they're haters and get a kick out of it. Despite their hatred, their criticism may still be valid.

But most of your comments IMO just seem to be very matter-of-fact, often seemingly blind to important context/nuances that make the answer not really as simple as you make it sound. And when people ask for sources, you often do not respond. I don't think I've ever seen you admit you were wrong either.

In fact this is the biggest problem I have with people in general (not just you), this kind of dogmatism, the black and white thinking. To me it shows a lack of empathy and humility, often those people are also very quick to anger, and I think it shows a lack of critical thinking, as if you somehow have all the answers and are infallible, that there can be no other possible valid perspectives or opinions, I think this is a rampant problem on IRC/the Internet and indeed life in general.

I also notice that a lot of your comments get downvoted, which I assume may be a combination of both unpopular opinions (or that they are stated in a way people disagree with), and just haters that will always downvote certain people.

All that being said, I realize I'm not perfect either, and I have absolutely fallen trap to all these same things and more, and for anyone who I have wronged by it, I apologize.

[LorenPechtel]

I have not noted his comment history so I'm only addressing this in a general fashion:

A lot of things actually are black and white, but people invent shades in them in order to avoid having to admit there's a problem without a solution. I've been accused of black and white thinking many times, almost never has the accuser been able to actually show a nuance to the situation.

[ranger_danger]

> A lot of things actually are black and white

My issue is with people who take this to the extreme and apply it to the vast majority of their responses, the so-called "know-it-alls" that Dunning & Kruger told us about.

I think if we want to be seen as truly intelligent, we need to have much more humility and empathy, and accept that we can't know everything about everything, and not try to act like we do.

> almost never has the accuser been able to actually show a nuance to the situation

I accept that that has been your experience, but I don't think it applies to everyone, not even close, and I think it also doesn't mean that they were wrong, they may just be unable to articulate a better response than you.

[LorenPechtel]

Thought here: Very often if you see something that's not black and white it really is multiple issues mixed together.

[immibis]

And other times, people invent shades in order to pretend there isn't a clear solution.

[hilux]

This thread is full of wonderful books! I had a lightning-bolt insight (one of few in my life) when listening that audiobook - the section about the shut-in.

The followup book is worth reading as well.

Different but related: Not Nice, by Aziz Gazipura.