[agedclock]

Sorry you are totally misrepresenting how difficult it is. Here is the checklist:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/68b6b7e7536d6...

> If you don’t have a passport, for instance, it’s much harder for a UK citizen to prove their right to work in the UK, for which your employer is liable if they get it wrong.

No it isn't. You need a Birth Certificate and a previous paycheck and something that has your NI number on it, and usually something to prove your address e.g. Utility Bill.

[pjc50]

Don't forget needing to get it countersigned by someone sufficiently middle-class. https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications/acce...

[agedclock]

This has nothing to do with passport applications. He is talking about right to work checks. There is nothing excessive about them and they does not require even photo-card ID e.g. driving license / passport.

Also you don't have to insert your personal brand of politics into every discussion. There is nothing outrageous about the list of professions of counter signers. All they are wanting is someone that can be identified easily in a community.

[scott_w]

A driving license isn’t sufficient for right to work checks because you can have a driving license without being able to work.

For shits and giggles, I just looked up the checker on the UK Gov website and… if you don’t have a passport or easy access to your birth certificate, you don’t have enough evidence of right to work.

Is this possible for most people? Yes. Does it leave groups excluded? Absolutely!

https://www.gov.uk/check-job-applicant-right-to-work

[agedclock]

> A driving license isn’t sufficient for right to work checks because you can have a driving license without being able to work.

I never said that you required a driving license. I said that at driving license was photo-card ID.

You need a passport or birth cert and NI number as a British Citizen for a right to work check. Most employers also want proof of address, so bring a utility bill.

I've been through this process about 3 times in the last 5 years. It isn't difficult or onerous.

> For shits and giggles, I just looked up the checker on the UK Gov website and… if you don’t have a passport or easy access to your birth certificate, you don’t have enough evidence of right to work.

I actually posted the checklist. I am quite aware what is required.

You can literally order replacements for a birth certificate easily. A replacement birth cert can be got for £12.50 and takes 4 days to receive.

https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certifica...

Nothing about this is "excessive".

> Is this possible for most people? Yes. Does it leave groups excluded? Absolutely!

People that can't produce basic documents it excludes.

You were claiming that the right to work checks were "excessive". Producing one or two documents that you should have is not "excessive".

[scott_w]

Your privilege is showing.

> You need a passport for a right to work check. I've been through this process about 3 times in the last 5 years. It isn't difficult or onerous.

A new passport costs over £100 for a paper application. That can be prohibitive for people.

> You can literally order replacements for these easily. A replacement birth cert can be got for £12.50 and takes 4 days to receive.

These are additional costs, it's also an extra £3.50 to find it (taking 15 days), and possibly another £38 to get it quickly.

So yes, these are all costs that add up to exclude people from partaking in society.

And all of this assumes your employer knows what the hell they're doing. Given the fines are painful, it's entirely possible your employer refuses valid documents "just in case" and sticks to the ones they've relied on in the past.

[agedclock]

> Your privilege is showing.

This is not an argument, and is merely a way to shut someone up because you don't like them disagreeing with you. It is quite a loathsome tactic.

> A new passport costs over £100 for a paper application. That can be prohibitive for people.

I agree that it is expensive. However you don't require a passport though and you can use a Birth Certificate and something that shows your NI number.

> These are additional costs, it's also an extra £3.50 to find it (taking 15 days), and possibly another £38 to get it quickly.

Ok. So £15. This is not "excessive" cost. Like with many things if you want something done more quickly you are required to pay extra.

If you are looking for work you really should make sure you have these documents as you should know that you are going to need them.

> So yes, these are all costs that add up to exclude people from partaking in society.

It may surprise you that a good number of things require monetary payment in some form or another to partake in society.

It is perfectly reasonable for the government to require basic checks to be carried out before you employed.

> And all of this assumes your employer knows what the hell they're doing. Given the fines are painful, it's entirely possible your employer refuses valid documents "just in case" and sticks to the ones they've relied on in the past.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here.

That to avoid fines an employer would break the law and not do right to work checks? Or that they are doing a right to work check and do additional checks?

[octo888]

> someone sufficiently middle-class.

The accuracy of this made me chuckle out loud!

[agedclock]

I don't consider a nurse or a pharmacist, or a pub landlord, or someone that own a Limited Company (anyone can setup a LTD) as middle class.

Also what is wrong with being middle-class?

[octo888]

Exactly. They're middle class sounding enough (sufficiently middle class). That's what's funny

And nobody said there anything wrong with being middle class.

[agedclock]

It is implied that there is something wrong by the fact that it is mentioned in such a manner.

[pseudalopex]

It implied there was something wrong with trusting every chiropodist and professional photographer more than any cook or army sergeant. It implied nothing about being middle middle class.