[jackstraw42]

No, I feel like rather you are misunderstanding my main point.

I do understand that I am stuck with the Apple equivalent of the Google Play Store. Android is more like a completely open ecosystem, Apple's is much more closed filled with walled gardens. Still, walls provide protection if the ones building them know what they're doing.

So, I feel like Apple has the edge with what we have, over Google's stance of "do nothing" rather than trying to give users a good sense of privacy. If Apple were fully open and allowed such a thing as F-Droid to exist on their OS, you would have a point.

edit: and both OSes are not perfect. That was also part of my main point, not that Apple's is clearly far superior. All I said was I'm glad I trusted my instincts and explained why.

last edit: I've read back the comments to try and see where the misunderstandings are coming from and hopefully have addressed them. While the most secure App Store does exist on Android, it's taken us a while to get there (I know F-Droid has been around a while as well). I am talking about the time period since very early Android and iOS up until now. If I had been using Android, no doubt I would have tried to do it the proper way, but knowing what I like to do freely on my mobile device instead of feeling like I need to worry about privacy with every. single. app. I pick iOS for my mobile OS from 2008-2025 again and I am glad that I did. None of the exploits, vulnerabilities, etc have affected me and I have to give Apple the credit for at least giving me my money's worth on that.

[stavros]

I don't think your point of "I think Apple is safer without much evidence, it's on you to prove otherwise" isn't very solid. You can think whatever you want, but the evidence is clear (as presented here) that the official stores don't do much to prevent malware.

A historical review of app store security also doesn't have much applicability to the current point of Google trying to raise its garden walls even higher.

[jackstraw42]

The point I'm trying to make is less about what Apple and Google are doing for us, and more about what their policies allow developers to do with their apps on their platforms.

[stavros]

I'm not sure what your point is, though. If you want an experience like the App Store, use the Play Store, they're basically the same. If you want to vet your apps, use another store, or install the APK.

Google gives you that freedom (or used to), Apple doesn't. The discussion here is that we Android users want to keep that freedom of choice.

[jackstraw42]

> I'm not sure what your point is, though.

Ok. I am saying GrapheneOS and F-Droid is the answer, but I don't think 17 years of what I would describe as Early Access Android was the way to get there.

[stavros]

Well, the issue with that was that iOS didn't get there, so it does appear like Early Access Android was the only thing that got us there in the end.

[jackstraw42]

Still not what I'm saying. I think we are paying the price for Android being so open right now, with the chaos happening in the US and worldwide. 17 years of messy Android evolution got us to a point where we could possibly start to examine what this has done to us. But based on how my original comment was received, I have much less hope than I did before I wrote it. Especially since I would consider some of the best minds on the internet to be regulars of Hacker News, and before we can even address this issue we need to clarify and understand it. I'm trying to do that here.

[AnthonyMouse]

> Still, walls provide protection if the ones building them know what they're doing.

And what I'm saying is that they put the walls in the wrong place. They belong around the store, not the platform, so that each store can have its own walls and the user can choose the store independently of the platform.

Suppose a platform wanted to do what F-Droid does, i.e. offer only a manually curated selection of apps and impose high standards for privacy and openness. If that store was the only store on a platform, would that platform be popular? It would immediately have to e.g. reject the Facebook app, so no.

In order to be the only store for a platform, the store is put under insurmountable pressure to compromise privacy in order to sustain the popularity of the platform. Even when the proprietor is as powerful as Apple, Facebook is still there.

Whereas F-Droid doesn't have to do that in order for Android to be popular, because the people who insist on compromising their privacy by installing the Facebook app can get it from Google Play and still use Android, and still have the benefit of the assurances F-Droid provides when installing other apps, and allow people who use only F-Droid to benefit having from a popular platform. And then the iOS app store contains apps that compromise your privacy like Facebook, and F-Droid doesn't.