[kelipso]

The “I am an expert, so listen to me drone about some political topic that’s vaguely related to my expertise” has been a thing for years now. And it’s usually some controversial thing that doesn’t have to do with science anyway.

In general, it makes scientists look really naive and makes them lose credibility when they talk about actual science.

[Braxton1980]

If a person is an expert on a topic then it makes sense for them to have a higher probability of being correct.

>And it’s usually some controversial thing that doesn’t have to do with science anyway.

What evidence do you have that most scientists are giving opinions about things unrelated to their expertise and then stating you should trust them more due to their expertise or position?

[kelipso]

Yes, that’s the typical argument but the problem is that they veer way out of their lane. And their lane is in reality very narrow and academically focused.

When these experts go into politics and activism, their biases show and consequently the credibility of them and their unfortunate colleagues who don’t go into politics get lowered.

> What evidence do you have that most scientists are giving opinions about things unrelated to their expertise and then stating you should trust them more due to their expertise or position?

I don’t live under a rock.

[Braxton1980]

> When these experts go into politics and activism

What if the issue is related to their expertise?

Veering out of the lane implies they start offering their opinion about a topic that has nothing to do with their field after discussing one that does without making a clear disclaimer

>credibility of them and their unfortunate colleague

It's wrong to judge all due to the actions of some. This is a huge flaw of people in general but I wanted to mention it.

[snickerbockers]

>What if the issue is related to their expertise?

NTA but I think one example which deserves far more scrutiny than it gets is all the public health experts[1] in the early months of COVID who were telling people to stay inside, don't gather in groups even if you're outside, don't go to church etc only to suddenly change their minds and say that gathering in large groups is actually very safe as soon as the protests surrounding the murder of george floyd happened. This is a topic they have expertise on (or at least they claim to) so it's certainly within their lane, but the abrupt change in policy was obviously motivated by their political leanings and it did *a lot* to hurt their personal credibility as well as perceptions of the pandemic in general.

[1] IDK how many of them should actually be considered 'experts' as this is not a field I follow, but they were presented as such in the media and so that is how they are perceived.

[Braxton1980]

>at least they claim to) so it's certainly within their lane

Yes. Which is what this discussion I replied to was about. The claim was experts using their status to claim expertise in opinions unrelated to their field, not whether they changed their opinions on subjects they are experts at.

[Braxton1980]

>but the abrupt change in policy was obviously motivated by their political leanings

March - The CDC publishes Covid guidelines on mass gathering in March “Interim Guidance: Get Your Mass Gatherings or Large Community Events Ready for COVID-19”

May 26th - The George Floyd protests start

June 4th - The CDC directory tells congress he fears the protests could be a Covid seeding event [1]

June 12th - The CDC publishes new Covid guidelines on mass gatherings [2] due to the protests

------------------------------

You claim the change from the CDC was abrupt.

1. The CDC already had guidelines in place for mass gatherings before the protest started so new guidelines aren't abrupt and the new guidelines came out 16 days after the protests started

2. The Floyd protests were very emotional as indicated by rioting and arson in some cities. The CDC can't stop protestors but it can attempt to reduce the spread of Covid by offering updated guidelines that take into account the protests

For example, the director brought up tear gas as it would cause more coughing [same hearing as [1]] as something specific to protests

------------------------------

You also claimed there was a political aspect to it, that it was convenient the CDC issued those guidelines.

1. The director specifically stated that the protests only increased the possibility of Covid spreading. by calling them a potential seeding event.

2. The director at the time, Robert Redfield, is a Republican appointed by Trump in 2018.

[1]“I do think there is a potential, unfortunately, for this to be a seeding event" [referring to the protests] Robert Redfield, House Appropriations hearing, June 4th 2020

[2] CDC "Considerations for events and gatherings"

[kelipso]

Suddenly, Public Health Officials Say Social Justice Matters More Than Social Distance (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/04/public-hea...).

Things like this is what most people saw at the time, resulting in public health officials losing credibility overall. Let’s not whitewash history here.

[snickerbockers]

Well I didn't mention CDC specifically, and I'm less concerned with the official statements from organizations like WHO or CDC than the talking-heads presented as experts by MSM outlets. I didn't take down a list or anything but I distinctly remember several doctors on outlets such as CNN who were scaring everybody into sequestering themselves inside only to later proclaim (with extremely suspicious timing) that outdoor gatherings are indeed safe.

And it's not just the talking heads but the politicians who are making policy based around what they say. These protests and riots were being encouraged by politicians who had been banning outdoor gatherings just two months prior.

>is a Republican appointed by Trump

I don't know if you're under the impression that I would grant more credence to somebody on this basis but my criticism isn't based around a fundamental opposition to wokies. It should not come as a surprise that people fall into science denialism and conspiracy theories when rules can change based around who stands to benefit from them. It was blatantly obvious that in certain locations lockdown rules were being tuned for political benefit.

If they truly thought outdoor gatherings were safe they could have said so at the beginning and it would have prevented a lot of opposition, especially from the religious groups who had a very legitimate constitutional argument in light of the fact that they weren't being allowed to gather indoors or outdoors.

>16 days after the protests started

that is exactly what I am talking about. Those protests lasted all summer, I don't know why you think a two-week delay between when they begin and when the rules are modified to the benefit of the protestors would absolve them of anything.

[Braxton1980]

>I don’t live under a rock.

Here's an example of what you are claiming. A chemist publicly states his opinion on the current illegal immigrant crackdown and implies or directly states that his opinion has more value because he is a chemist.

Alternative example the chemist is interviewed for his opinion on immigration by the news (except as a bystander when they want random people to chime in).

For example CNN is discussing Trump's crackdown and says "here to talk about what Trump is doing is Harvard professor of Chemistry and (other titles) Chemist John Bismuth"

-----------

Can you provide an example of this?

[DonHopkins]

So it's "political" to disagree about Tylenol causing autism, or injecting disinfectant curing Covid?

[kelipso]

You are making a classic motte and bailey argument.

[Braxton1980]

What makes something "political"?

[wat10000]

Do they have any real influence? I’m about a million times more concerned about politicians who act like they have worthwhile opinions about science.

[jonathanstrange]

Jordan Peterson comes to my mind. Although I have no respect for his opinions at all, I still think that, in the end, scientists have their political views and should be allowed to talk about them. What they shouldn't be allowed is to insinuate that these views are anything other than their personal views. Hate speech and political extremism should also not be allowed because these damage the reputation of their university.

Other than that, I don't think it's right to tell them not to use their status to influence politics and society towards what they perceive as making the world better. On the contrary, they might have some duty to do just that.