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by Q6T46nT668w6i3m 267 days ago
What do you mean? Activism is an essential part of science but maybe I’m misunderstanding your use of “activist.”
6 comments

I feel like scientists should be explaining to us how the world is, and then other people should use those explanations to try and improve it.

Right now I feel like there are a scientists who would hide or discard results if they contradicted their advocacy beliefs,which is a dangerous place to be imo.

That's how it works. I think people for some reason don't understand policy making. The CDC conducts research and studies, pulls data, performs analysis, and then provides guidance based on it.

It enacts no rules, laws, or regulations. That's done by policy makers who can listen to or ignore the guidance and data from the CDC at their discretion.

No, it's not. Good science requires objective thinking and evidence-based reasoning. Claims must be proven, not accepted based on authority or prima facie evidence.
Unfortunately, social media or whatever has changed science communication. A scientist can do amazing science, have total evidence based reasoning and then be completely ignored because some quack tells a good story on Rogan.
That speaks more to society than science. We should not expect scientists to fix this problem. It's outside their domain.
That doesn’t matter and it’s not any different than 20 years ago. New findings could be published in medical journals that nobody in the public hears about and some quack on Howard Stern could spew to millions.
This is also the definition of good activism.
There are no true activists anymore, what a tragedy.
90% of activists probably do good boring unseen work, you only see the 10% who make a stink on social media or protest on the streets.
You might be confusing activists with volunteers. Those who donate their time and money are not necessarily vocal about their pet projects. I'm part of the latter and do not consider myself an activist.
Absolutely not. A scientist is expected to change their mind when new, counterfactual evidence is presented. Activists push for positions regardless of whether any evidence exists to support their position, and seem to maintain their position even when presented with counterfactual evidence. That is not science. We have a name for it: dogma.
Wait a second, if you’re saying that this is not a feature of good activism, are you implying you are more convinced by activists who practice dogma over objective thinking?

What is a scientist to do when they discover a vaccine or cure for something; say fuck it who cares if we change behavior? Are you saying a good vaccine advocate is someone who ignores the underlying science and acts dogmatically?

It just feels like you want to demonize this action of activism for… why? Just because there are lots of bad activists? There are a lot of bad scientists as well, to be honest the view of “good scientist” and “bad activist” feels dogmatic.

I have yet to observe an activist practice objective thinking. That was the root of the argument. Activists sometimes do back the correct argument, but not because they are practising scientific reasoning. Most activists are swayed by rhetoric, a good story. That's an emotional response, not a logical one.

To answer your second point, science has a process for disseminating new findings. It's not perfect, but it works. Organizations that scientists work for do pay attention to those sources, discoveries do get patented and productionized. I encourage you to conduct some research: See how many people were talking about mRNA vaccines and gain-of-function research on social media before COVID vs after. The lack of social media coverage didn't affect the science or the scientists, who had spent the past decade conducting research on the subject.

I will maintain that Twitter/X/Bluesky are not part of the scientific process, nor should they be. These platforms do not encourage objective thought or reasoned arguments.

> I have yet to observe an activist practice objective thinking

It would be a sampling bias fallacy to draw conclusions based on your lack of observations.

Eg: "mountains, never seen them, they don't exist."

It is funny then for a geologist to be considered an activist when they say the mountains most certainly do exist.

Your first paragraph is unfounded. (Fwiw, The other two I found interesting. )

Maybe the problem is with our funding model. Necessarily the whole grant system is based on being able to argue a narrative as to why your scientific inquiry deserves money. Combine that with a system that includes incentives towards or away from social values, and scientists are necessarily activists.

And then that’s just to get money in your specific direction, getting money in your general direction requires more broad activism.

So Jonas Salk advocating for getting your child vaccinated against Polio wasn't a scientist? Just a dogmatist? Your definition of activism is foolish
And what does this have to do with activism?
> Activism is an essential part of science

How so? It seems obvious that you can do science (that is: attempt to advance the understanding of how the natural world works) without being an activist for any cause.

The job of science is to discover facts and produce new knowledge from those facts. Activism is the marketing of an ideology. They couldn't be more opposite.
> ...an essential part...

Why? Which of these other jobs would you call "Activism" an essential part of:

- Fire fighter

- Elementary school teacher

- Auto mechanic

- ER nurse

- Professor of Medieval History

- Climate change

- School shootings

- Sure, they can shut up

- COVID

- Is this one serious?

Ah I see. So you want to use "science" to push particular political remedies to your pet issues.
Oh I mean I don’t care if the teacher is for or against school shootings, I just find it interesting to have subject matter experts share their knowledge and give their opinions on things that impact their field. Some people just don’t take it well when those opinions don’t line up with their own on contentious topics.
How is it "interesting" for an elementary school teacher to be against school shootings? I'd bet I can find some carpenters who are against smashing thumbs with hammers, but why bother?

Are you calling it "Activism" when someone shares the opinion of 99.9% of the population, and spends 0 time advocating for that opinion?

Um, yes. Science is the best epistemology that humanity has discovered, best being as the most effective way to discover truth.
Auto mechanic: Consumer advocacy, business regulation, labor issues, safety, etc.

Professor of Medieval history: Lots of political discourse makes claims about history or things like "the dark ages" that turn out to be mis-interpretations or false. Note that I have a friend in that field who often writes gentle corrections to false historical claims in online discourse.

I mean things like nature starting to make endorsements for president. Overly political for no reason.
They are planning on de-orbiting weather satellites because the administration doesn't believe in climate change. Nature was maybe on to something.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-023-01537-5. One study says the endorsement had little effect on voting intention but damaged credibility and perception of scientists.
Then why is it that YOU are working so hard to damage the credibility and perception of scientists?
When one political party is explicitly anti-science in its goals and aims and actions (RFK, global warming as a hoax, anti-vaxx, COVID as a hoax), Nature endorsing the person who is pro-science isn't political; it's existential. This is not "no reason". It's just not the reason you like because for some reason.