[dannyobrien]

So the Netherlands may not be the best example to use as a positive example here.

Notoriously, the national identity system was used during World War II as a system for discovering and eliminating the Jewish community[1]. The lessons learned from that are a frequent topic of discussion in civil liberties groups, and the Dutch experience is often cited, both global conversations and within the Netherlands -- e.g. On Liberation Day 2015, Bits of Freedom held its annual Godwin Lecture on the risks of prioritising ID efficiency over civil liberties[2].

It may be that special protections were coded into the current system to prevent this from happening again, I don't know the details.

Certainly, the reputation for how obligatory papers have been (mis)used in mainland Europe since Napoleonic times have fed into the anglo world's suspicion around introducing similar regulations[3]. There are several recurring memes around how compulsory documents are a sign of an authoritarian environment.

[1] - https://jck.nl/en/agenda/identity-cards-and-forgeries

[2] - https://www.bitsoffreedom.nl/2015/04/30/during-world-war-ii-...

[3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Valjean

[3uler]

When I moved to the Netherlands I was shocked to find out you have to maintain a registered address with the government.

The government also decides how many non-family members can register at an address, so in Amsterdam it is common for people to remain registered at there parents while subletting a room in an apartment.

You also get a DigiD which very convenient but also terrifying, especially when I walk around my neighborhood and see plaque’s in the ground for the victims of the holocaust who lived here.

My Dutch girlfriend does not believe me when I tell here that you don’t have to register where you live with the government in the anglophone world. It’s just so engrained in the society that anything else seems absurd.

[Alphaeus]

Here in New Zealand, you're required to be enrolled to vote, even if you never intend to actually vote. Enrolling requires an address. I imagine it's similar in Australia, where actually voting is required by law.

I believe in New Zealand other government agencies aren't allowed to access your data without your consent though.

[3uler]

The Electoral Roll is quite different though

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_roll

[conorflan]

My response as to the difference is the 1998 Good Friday agreement. Something that has already been branded as the Brit Card is simply something that wouldn't work in Northern Ireland, and that the name passed any scrutiny say an awful lot.

Ireland is not Britain, and people from Northern Ireland can chose to identify as British, Irish or Both by birthright.

A "Brit Card" is not something a significant portion of people would want.

I personally am more disgusted by the nationalistic naming, but I also don't like the idea of needing a smartphone or my walle when walking.

If these aren't true details then the messaging has been poor, per form, and needs to be addressed, quickly.

[umanwizard]

Irish and British citizenship are de facto equivalent throughout the UK: any Irish person can simply decide to turn up in London without getting any kind of visa or asking any permission from anyone and live, work, or basically do anything a British person is allowed to do. So I’m curious how this will affect Irish people more broadly, not just in NI. Will they need to apply for this card?

[physarum_salad]

The common travel area + Brit_card might result in an interesting pattern where ID is by association rather than territorial location. For instance, as nationalists reject it and use only IRE/EU equivalents where possible. The passport is somewhat similar already. Would people reject services and jobs in N.I.? Completely possible and it already happens with people working "down south" aka down the road.

The civil liberties concerns, particularly in N.I. (historically speaking), are also important to consider. There is quite a high capacity for discriminatory practices in the region from all angles.

On the other side. The British government are lowering themselves to the position of "just another app on my phone". A system riddled with viruses, cyber attacks, etc. Further, what is to stop groups simply setting up and alternative ID system running on btc or something in the future...if this becomes the norm? At first it would be useless and a farce. Later a complete separate system.

Anyway, horrible idea all round. They clearly have not thought this through. Paper ids and loose associations are things I am a fan of in the anglophone world.

[KoolKat23]

You will not need to carry it around with you.

It also seems it'll actually be called Digital ID by the government, this is more a marketing tool, BritCard.

(Just clarifying if it helps, I see some misinformation out there).

[t14000]

Because they pinky promise? It'll be required to produce one like producing a driving license is required, but you don't need to have it with you. It'll be required because pubs/bars etc will require it. It'll not be required like giving a traffic stop breath sample is not required or like giving up your password is not required.

Imagine it was called IrishID or similar, help you to have empathy for how half of NI residents might feel about Brit-anything?

[KoolKat23]

I guess it depends on its design (does it set up the dystopian infrastructure or not) and then more so on the legislation around it. It's already not uncommon to need your passport for work, making it a law to produce for any work would be the actual thing that changes this.

I get your point about IrishID, but be realistic, none of this is surprising considering the current state of things. I could make some controversial statements in this regard but I'll avoid the flames (I sympathise with you before you place me in the wrong box).

[physarum_salad]

Huh? Everyone carries their phone everywhere and an ID card on an app is carried everywhere. When you stay at a hotel you might have to produce it, go to a doctors appointment,... and so on

[KoolKat23]

Huh? In countries like Italy it's actually mandatory to have a form of identification on you when in public, this isn't the case.

[physarum_salad]

The "brit_card" is on your phone and you will carry it everywhere. It is also a walking surveillance beacon and hacking target.

[KoolKat23]

You could but you dont necessarily have to, no different to your passport or drivers license. The technical implementation remains to be seen. It may even be more secure than some forms id, such as those with NFC/RFID built in.

[Aeolun]

I don’t think the current ID structure has any field for religious or racial history. It’s simply a unique number assigned to a person at birth.

[JetSetIlly]

The census form in the UK requires disclosure of religion and ethnicity. It would be relatively easy to merge census data with ID.

I might trust this government not to do that, but I don't trust a future government (because I don't know who that will be).

[heavenlyblue]

how would the existence of this card make it easier to pursue you if you're let's say, Jewish? Doesn't passport/driving license already have thisv

[JetSetIlly]

Maybe it doesn't make it any easier but your question does remind us that cataloguing and categorising people can be dangerous. I accept that there are good reasons that the state could use this information, but we should also be alert to possible abuses.

Without looking, I honestly don't know if the passport and driving licence lists this information. But the census certainly does.

[heavenlyblue]

I mean the issue is that British people are so uptight about the government id card when a) oyster/credit card allows somebody to track all of their movement b) there's plenty of information collection that combined can be used against you c) driving license is de facto gov id at the moment. The ship had sailed, you are fighting against the wrong thing and that's why this battle will be lost.