[splittist]

For a non-Valley, non-VC, non-swing-for-the-fences (Sand Hill Road cookie cutter) startup, think about where your risks really lie (who is going to sue you; when; why; and for how much). If you have partners, then having someone walk you through all the 'what if things go wrong' stuff may be useful. If it's just you, then you can even postpone incorporation. As for tax - that's a nice problem to have, but it's not one that's going to loom large on day one (or even year one). I would be amazed if it made sense for the median startup to register any trademarks. And if you "need" patents, really drill down on what that "need" is (if it's just a tick-the-box exercise for eventual VC's, then one jurisdiction might be enough; if you need a global patent protection strategy to secure your fundamental business value, you're doing it wrong).

When you do hire a lawyer, get an estimate up front, make clear that you want to know in advance if the bill is getting anywhere near the estimate, and require monthly interim billing if there is something ongoing. If you can fit in some scornful laughter at the idea of billing for photocopying and phone calls, that would be good, too. Many lawyers pay lip-service to the idea of fixed fees for defined projects: think about calling their bluff. And ask about other value-added services they might provide, such as introductions to other clients who might be interesting to know. This will be like pulling teeth, because lawyers are pretty terrible at everything in business except (if you are lucky) the legal stuff.

But they probably do know the legal stuff better than you, so don't try to impose irrelevant constraints, like "I want a one-pager for this".

[bigiain]

I'm not so sure about the trademark thing. I've just started that process with my partners non-tech new business. Here (in Australia) you can do a bunch of searches online, and enter a trademark application on a government website for $120, and if it;s approved you pay $300 for 10 years trademark protection. Once you've got all your domain name / twitter handle / social media accounts and pages lined up, a few hundred bucks for trademark protection in your area of business seems like money well spent to me, even if all it does is discourage someone from making a claim they've got more rights to a domain name or social media account name than you.

Of course that adice mostly applies to trademarking names which clearly have no existing claimants (or at least none in your area of business) which would complicate things enough to require law firm time to resolve...

[jacques_chester]

Yep, trademarks are fairly self-service in Australia. Generally you can leave the lawyer out of it unless and until a dispute arises.

That being said, some lawyers only charge a pretty minimal amount over and above the underlying IP Australia fee and it can nice to delegate the paperwork to them.

It really depends on what your time is worth.

[rprasad]

If it's just you, then you can even postpone incorporation.

Or you could just form an S-Corporation, which is intended precisely for small companies, convert to a (classic) C-Corporation if and when necessary.

As for tax - that's a nice problem to have, but it's not one that's going to loom large on day one (or even year one).

Taxes will loom largely from the very first quarter, especially for unincorporated individuals. Income and business taxes are owed at least quarterly; sales taxes or VAT are owed biweekly, monthly, or quarterly depending on the jurisdiction. In this regard, incorporating is definitely a benefit, since any penalties for failure to timely pay taxes will accrue to the corporation and not to the individual owners.

When you do hire a lawyer, get an estimate up front, make clear that you want to know in advance if the bill is getting anywhere near the estimate, and require monthly interim billing if there is something ongoing.

Or just hire a lawyer that provides services for a fixed fee, as most startup laywers and small business lawyers already do. Monthly billing is standard practice; indeed, many malpractice insurers actually require lawyers to invoice clients monthly for risk management reasons.

If you can fit in some scornful laughter at the idea of billing for photocopying and phone calls, that would be good, too.

If you are paying hourly rates, this is a legitimate issue...unless you are the one initiating most of the phone calls. If you are paying a fixed fee, this is a non-starter.

Many lawyers pay lip-service to the idea of fixed fees for defined projects: think about calling their bluff.

If you sign an engagement letter providing for a fixed-fee, that is not a bluff. That is a binding legal contract, and a lawyer who violates that contract can get disbarred. If you mean that the lawyers market fixed fees but instead try to negotiate hourly fees, I suggest you call your local bar association and report them. Deceptive marketing is serious ethical breach in nearly every state, and can even result in disbarrment.

This will be like pulling teeth, because lawyers are pretty terrible at everything in business except (if you are lucky) the legal stuff.

Your lawyer is a businessman himself. Think about it: he runs his own (legal) consulting business. You are his client. He acquired you either through marketing, networking, or referral--in other words, the 3 primary means that any service provider acquires a customer. He handles his own costs, taxes, staff, everything. Unless he's brand-spanking new, he's almost certainly a better businessman than you, and will probably remain so for the foreseeable future. He's already making a profit. (In the real world, success is measured by profit, not eyeballs or signups.) But the economics of legal practice are different from those of a startup, so make sure he understands your economic concerns and can tailor his services to meet your needs.